Ableton Sampler Sale is Bull sh!#

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:38 am

I get what you're saying

it's money out of potential buyers pockets gone

If I spend $499 on Logic that's $499 less I have to spend on Live 6

however, most of us own live so that point is mute

the new users who have to pay full price (AND AREN'T INTO PERFORMING) will perceive (and rightfully so) that Logic is by far a better value - more synths, effects and a tried and tested product endorsed by some heavy hitters in the music biz

I'd buy Logic before I bought Live at that price point if I was starting from scratch again

but I think Paris Hilton's very hot so...

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:38 am

what can possibly come out of discussing it anyway? the Abes will read the market and judge from there, I'm sure they read the forum but nothing said here is going to effect the price.

Apple's pricing on Logic will be interesting in the coming YEARS. even though Apple owns the product they'll still have to scrap for funding for the Logic development department, there's keeping up with OS updates as well as new features and bug fixes. they can undersell the competition but neglect the product in the meantime.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:43 am

hoffman2k wrote:Its funny how people can argue in agreement.

I agree

Everybody is bitching about instruments that costs less then the average amount of money thats wasted on junk food, weed, beer, girls,.... in a month.

If you don't see the link between integrated plugins and Live Sequencing Instrument, I don't think i'll ever understand your point of view.

At least on my system, if a plug in is running correctly as an AU or VST I can tell no difference in performance between them and Abletons. In fact FM7 actually used less CPU than Operator in my system!

Why are we waiting for the Cycling thing? We're just waiting for integration. Max/Pluggo is there to be used, its just not the same though...

I love Cycling 74, and I've owned Pluggo for 6+ years! picked it up when it was $74! but it's always been the buggiest plug in, and I personally think that in this case, integration or Max/MSP embedded might actually produce some great things!

I'm sorry, but i don't think that a company that is stubborn enough to ignore hundreds of requests to "bring back a button", will actually be bothered with what Apple does.

You can argue about prices all you want. It must be a $ vs € thing, because i cant see why you would call something that has been as useful as Sampler/Operator too expensive.
Think of all the money you'll save while playing with Live/Sampler/Operator instead of going out to drink

See I own Logic, Komplete 4 and Live. To me, Operator and Sampler are far too simplistic and pretty much useless. I require MIDI editing that Live doesn't really handle well, and so I bounce between Logic and Live often. Embedded plug ins are anathema to me.

You should read my posts at OSXaudio about how Mainstage should be an AU that you can use as a Multi instrument in Live! It's not just Ableton or Operator etc. that get to me this way. Steinberg did one thing right in creating VST, and everybody is out to destroy it it seems..... No portability.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:49 am

hambone1 wrote:Businesses DO need to be competitive, but with similar products. Just because apple prices fall doesn't mean that orange prices need to fall, too.

IMO, Live has a niche market and a unique product and as such doesn't need to drop prices to compete. They've got nothing to compete with. Why should they drop prices?

Apple, on the other hand, are competing with DAWs, and can afford to sell Logic at a reduced price. They'll recover it on hardware sales.

But if Logic has the effect of reducing the cost of Live's instruments, that's gotta be a good thing.

Also Hambone, I think you're underestimating the number of people who produce in Live - I know you use it completley as a Live tool but Live actually holds it's own really well for writing music, (apart from the obvious flaws I keep moaning about!

) - so my point is Live IS competing with a fair chunk of that market

it would be a real shame for them to be upstaged just because of price

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:55 am

But even for those who only produce and write, IMO Live has SO many more positive elements that make it superior to a 'traditional' DAW.

If users don't use or need those unique attributes, I agree... it makes more sense to buy Logic.

IMO, if the Abes could make Live a real DAW AND reduce the price, they'll nail the market.

condra · Post by **condra** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:22 am

IMO, if the Abes could make Live a real DAW AND reduce the price, they'll nail the market.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:25 am

condra wrote:
IMO, if the Abes could make Live a real DAW AND reduce the price, they'll nail the market.

and package it with strawberry ice cream and hookers.

apple bought Logic and dropped the price.

IMO apple made the price drop move because they had $$ to back it. they tossed their hat into the DAW ring to see who scattered. how apple treats Logic in the next few years will be telling. previously, Logic cost $1k because that's what they felt met the market and their needs. can apple profit from Logic at a lower price and keep the quality up.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:36 am

Just give us real audio editing, can't believe DP is the only one on OSX that gets this right (well C4, but too unstable to be considered IMO). Full destructive editing on the arrange page (what you see is what you get) and auto-create the new edits as seperate audio files so you never need to worry about accidentally messing up clips used elsewhere in the song.

Igor L · Post by **Igor L** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:37 am

I don't understand why people are acting as though Logic 8 is the first ever competitor that Live has to deal with. How about Cubase and Sonar? Reason? Protools? These have all been around for many years and Ableton has somehow managed to deal with the competition. I'm sure they'll figure out how to deal with it now.

tricil · Post by **tricil** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:12 am

Tarekith wrote:Just give us real audio editing, can't believe DP is the only one on OSX that gets this right (well C4, but too unstable to be considered IMO). Full destructive editing on the arrange page (what you see is what you get) and auto-create the new edits as seperate audio files so you never need to worry about accidentally messing up clips used elsewhere in the song.

i like the current work flow... control j or freeze...

also, having the "consolidated" and "frozen" folders in the sample folders make for happy discoveries of 1-1Audio2 being completely awesome from x y song in the past.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:38 am

Machinesworking wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:Its funny how people can argue in agreement.

I agree

Everybody is bitching about instruments that costs less then the average amount of money thats wasted on junk food, weed, beer, girls,.... in a month.

If you don't see the link between integrated plugins and Live Sequencing Instrument, I don't think i'll ever understand your point of view.
At least on my system, if a plug in is running correctly as an AU or VST I can tell no difference in performance between them and Abletons. In fact FM7 actually used less CPU than Operator in my system!

Why are we waiting for the Cycling thing? We're just waiting for integration. Max/Pluggo is there to be used, its just not the same though...
I love Cycling 74, and I've owned Pluggo for 6+ years! picked it up when it was $74! but it's always been the buggiest plug in, and I personally think that in this case, integration or Max/MSP embedded might actually produce some great things!

I'm sorry, but i don't think that a company that is stubborn enough to ignore hundreds of requests to "bring back a button", will actually be bothered with what Apple does.

You can argue about prices all you want. It must be a $ vs € thing, because i cant see why you would call something that has been as useful as Sampler/Operator too expensive.
Think of all the money you'll save while playing with Live/Sampler/Operator instead of going out to drink
See I own Logic, Komplete 4 and Live. To me, Operator and Sampler are far too simplistic and pretty much useless. I require MIDI editing that Live doesn't really handle well, and so I bounce between Logic and Live often. Embedded plug ins are anathema to me.

You should read my posts at OSXaudio about how Mainstage should be an AU that you can use as a Multi instrument in Live! It's not just Ableton or Operator etc. that get to me this way. Steinberg did one thing right in creating VST, and everybody is out to destroy it it seems..... No portability.

Wait a minute. How did we end up discussing this in the first place? If its all about Sampler/Operator... "To each his own" and we're done

I get your point about VST's. We got native plugins, audio units, vst, vsti, rtas, pluggo vst, lapsda,...
But nobody is stopping you from rewiring application X to application Y.
I've always seen Live as an instrument, therefore rewiring (or soundflowering) it to some other app doesn't sound like an alien concept to me.
What good is operator/sampler without racks anyway? Its a package deal. ehrm, wrong phrase...

Lets pick this back up when we know more about the cycling thing. As it stands now its pointless, because both our biggest wishes depend on C74...
I could care less about the price of operator/sampler just like you can care less about operator/sampler.
I could go into things like "try racking 128 instances of FM7", but then i'd have to explain how Live devices and idle CPU work again

Have a nice sunday...

And somebody please shut up Hambone... He's making me hungry..
Mmmmm.. Apples... Oranges... Some bananas plus kiwi and i got myself a healthy breakfast

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:14 am

Tone Deft wrote: I'm sure they read the forum but nothing said here is going to effect the price..

dont be so sure man - they pay attention then decide what THEY want to do!

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:21 am

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:27 am

dbolt · Post by **dbolt** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:52 pm

2 respond to the original post, I agree Sampler's sale price should be lower. I hope Ableton's keeping track thats one more vote. I would love to add Sampler to the mix but only if its lowered. I guess I'm little sourer being I just laid $999.99 on Logic 7.2 about 4 months ago and now I could've gotten 8 for $499 damn it. Oh well I still use Ableton 6 more often. I wish Apple would've given more options for upgrading.