is it a step sequencer i'm looking for?

pistacchio · Post by **pistacchio** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:26 pm

hi to all!
i've been searching the forum for enough now, so i decided to post the question.
i don't know if what i'm looking for is called "step sequencer", but i guess so.
i
i want a sort of "advanced arpeggiator" or similar. imagine i write a midi sequence (say C D C E) and i want to "play" it. so, if i hit a C on the keyboard, it will play (and loop, eventually) C D C E, but if i hit a D, it will transpose it playing D E D F# (i guess i can pass it throu the scale plugin to always stay in tune, in case i'm playing in C major). i call it "advanced arpeggiator" because i want full control on the notes played, the length of the notes etc.
in a word, can i have a device like albino's sequencer but integrated in live, like a vst, a plugin or something?
thanks in advance.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:30 pm

pistacchio wrote:hi to all!
i've been searching the forum for enough now, so i decided to post the question.
i don't know if what i'm looking for is called "step sequencer", but i guess so.
i
i want a sort of "advanced arpeggiator" or similar. imagine i write a midi sequence (say C D C E) and i want to "play" it. so, if i hit a C on the keyboard, it will play (and loop, eventually) C D C E, but if i hit a D, it will transpose it playing D E D F# (i guess i can pass it throu the scale plugin to always stay in tune, in case i'm playing in C major). i call it "advanced arpeggiator" because i want full control on the notes played, the length of the notes etc.
in a word, can i have a device like albino's sequencer but integrated in live, like a vst, a plugin or something?
thanks in advance.

have you tried a combination of midi clips + scale + note length + + velocity + arpeggiator + clip envelopes?

pistacchio · Post by **pistacchio** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:39 pm

have you tried a combination of midi clips + scale + note length + + velocity + arpeggiator + clip envelopes?

hmmm, how is this combination supposed to produce a "playable sequence"? mind that i'm lookinf for a combination that works for a live performance!

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:40 pm

pistacchio wrote:
have you tried a combination of midi clips + scale + note length + + velocity + arpeggiator + clip envelopes?
hmmm, how is this combination supposed to produce a "playable sequence"? mind that i'm lookinf for a combination that works for a live performance!

well you put those items in a 'rack' and map the macros to the parameters that you are likely to wanna control in a live situation.

so like.. trigger midi clip > control the sound and length and behaviour of those notes & arp with the rack i described above.

pistacchio · Post by **pistacchio** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:18 pm

sweetjesus wrote:
pistacchio wrote:
have you tried a combination of midi clips + scale + note length + + velocity + arpeggiator + clip envelopes?
hmmm, how is this combination supposed to produce a "playable sequence"? mind that i'm lookinf for a combination that works for a live performance!
well you put those items in a 'rack' and map the macros to the parameters that you are likely to wanna control in a live situation.

so like.. trigger midi clip > control the sound and length and behaviour of those notes & arp with the rack i described above.

i guess i didn't make myself clear enough. i don't want to control parameters, i want to be able to play a sequence in different tonalities.
imagine i have this sequence:

it is based on the a C major chord, but it is not something i can reproduce with any combination of scales / chords / arpeggios or note lenght, as you can see it contains two notes played simoultaneously, changes in note lenghts, a pause, a note (D) that is not in the chord etc. it a sequence, and i want i to loop when i play a C note, but i want it to be transposed up by 2 half-steps when i play a D note etc. as mentioned before, the Albino step seq / arpeggiator is a good example of what i'm after.

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:28 pm

If you record your sequence as audio in an audio clip an map the clip on a range of MIDI notes of your keyboard (a reasonable range) Live does this for you.
The first note opf the range better be the root of your clip (in your case C) and then
if you play a D note the sequence is transposed and played back. Because Live uses Warp/Transpose during this use the correct settings.
If you want to do this in MIDI real time... I have to think it over a little bit and the answer might be you can't.

- Best
- Pasha

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:31 pm

try mapping the midi clip in session to a range of notes.
To do this - go into midi mapping mode and hold down a high and low note while the clip is selected.
when you use these keys to play the midi clip it will transpose

set its launch quantise to 16ths and legato

put a scale plugin on it to constrain it to your scale.

I do this a lot, I have a tune called 'expectation gap' which uses this principle. So I can play the silly electric piano parts 'live' - I simply play the first bar live and then I can play the rest of the song with one finger!

check my myspace page or website links below if you need an example

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:38 pm

Angstrom wrote:try mapping the midi clip in session to a range of notes.
To do this - go into midi mapping mode and hold down a high and low note while the clip is selected.
when you use these keys to play the midi clip it will transpose

set its launch quantise to 16ths and legato

put a scale plugin on it to constrain it to your scale.

I do this a lot, I have a tune called 'expectation gap' which uses this principle. So I can play the silly electric piano parts 'live' - I simply play the first bar live and then I can play the rest of the song with one finger!

check my myspace page or website links below if you need an example

You just was quicker than me! Just tried it.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:43 pm

Check this thread: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11014

I basically made a pluggo that does this. I actually had forgotten about this till today.
So i'm incredebly sorry for the delay on the pc version. Its essentially ready, I just need Andreas to build a pc vst in max.

I'll get on it as soon as he is online.

pistacchio · Post by **pistacchio** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:58 pm

Angstrom wrote:try mapping the midi clip in session to a range of notes.
To do this - go into midi mapping mode and hold down a high and low note while the clip is selected.
when you use these keys to play the midi clip it will transpose

set its launch quantise to 16ths and legato

put a scale plugin on it to constrain it to your scale.

I do this a lot, I have a tune called 'expectation gap' which uses this principle. So I can play the silly electric piano parts 'live' - I simply play the first bar live and then I can play the rest of the song with one finger!

check my myspace page or website links below if you need an example

oh, wow angstrom, this trick is very close to what i'm looking for. i spy two flaws in it, though. first, i'd like the loop to be played while i hold the key pressed (and stop when i release it), so that i can actually "play" the sequence, more than triggering it. it is much more intuitive from a performing point of view.
the second problem is probably linked with my lack of appropriate knowledge. image i have the sequence mapped from C2 to C4. i use it to play complex arpeggios with my left hand (actually playing only one note at a time) while i play the melody with my right hand. when i switch instrument to play another part of the song, i still have half of my keyboard mapped to trigger sequences that i don't need anymore!

by the way, that song of you is really cool. tuolmo is even better and i'm listening to the others, thanks for sharing.

pistacchio · Post by **pistacchio** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:02 pm

hoffman2k wrote:Check this thread: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11014

I basically made a pluggo that does this. I actually had forgotten about this till today.
So i'm incredebly sorry for the delay on the pc version. Its essentially ready, I just need Andreas to build a pc vst in max.

I'll get on it as soon as he is online.

sounds cool! i'll give it a try as soon as the windows version is out, thanks!

pistacchio · Post by **pistacchio** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:53 pm

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 pm

My mate has been busy. Haven't been able to get a hold of him.
If somebody with max 4.6 on pc is reading this and has some time to build the pluggo, please PM me with your email address and i'll send the patch.

Buleriachk · Post by **Buleriachk** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:17 pm

Aren't you describing an arranger (like the Korg PA-80 - hardware or Band in a Box software)?

deva · Post by **deva** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:42 pm

You are looking for an Arpeggiator, not a Step Sequencer (the reason being that you want it polyphonic and able to play chords)

I would also like if Live had a 'real' arpeggiator that was polyphonic and could program parts. Plenty of synths have fine arps built in but then you can only use that arp with that synth. It makes sense for a host to have an arp.

The arp included with Live is so convoluted to use for this purpose as to be in practice, useless.

It does not seem like it would take much development time for Ableton to make a good arp and would exactly fit the Live paradigm.

Zebra also has an excellent arp, as does FM8

is it a step sequencer i'm looking for?

is it a step sequencer i'm looking for?

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