My thoughts on LIVE! Is cheaper better to express yourself?

Dominik · Post by **Dominik** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:48 pm

you don't need to be a musician to produce some good sound but musicians they solved the technical/physical computer problems and make good music are rare.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:54 pm

Soemtimes less is more.

Igor L · Post by **Igor L** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:21 pm

alien factory wrote:Any suggestions on my thought concerning a specific Ableton Hardware Controller???

For all we know one may already be in the works

alien factory · Post by **alien factory** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:19 am

do you have some more info on what you already know about that??

subunit23 · Post by **subunit23** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:28 pm

Hi Stefan, very interesting post indeed. In terms of interface the FaderFox boxes (http://faderfox.de/) have been specifically designed for Ableton but I don't think they will give you a great deal of creativity in a live situation. The monome/Tenori-on are great and still in development. There are incredible interface that already works really well with Ableton and could fulfill what you are looking for.

But IMO, the future in terms of interfaces/improvisation tools is the reactable. See for yourself the demos on youtube and how it works in a live/improvisation situation :

demo #1 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-RhyopUmc

demo #2 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MPG-LYoW27E

Live http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vm_FzLya8y4

Hope you like it,

Pascal.

alien factory · Post by **alien factory** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:35 pm

Hi Pascal

yeah, I already saw those a few months ago, really cool and definitely the right way into the future...

What I am thinking of is a controller just like the tenori-On on with leds for feedback but no knobs. Perhaps just one touch-sensitive surface where you can define parts to react to your pushes and slides. Should be "intelligent" to understand what you would like to do...

I think of that and let you know...

cheers

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:50 pm

It's hard for Ableton to produce a 'playable instrument' piece of software because the definition and requirements of that change from person to person and from situation to situation. Right now, a certain level of programming (ie. creating your Live set to work with the MIDI controllers you want to use) is inevitable.

However Ableton has already done wonders for live electronic performance capability due to Live's features and overall deceptively simple look and use.

Alien Factory, what do you define as live music though? I would define live music as a performance which carries a degree of risk - for example playing an instrument and not just launching quantised clips.

alien factory · Post by **alien factory** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:07 pm

totally agree with you , thats the reason why I use LIVE...

I would define making live music as the capabilty of a musician to express his musical ideas and wishes in realtime with his hands, his mouth and feet on any kind of instrument. For me it doesn't matter if these are quantised loops or a traditional instruments or both in combination. And there is where I wish we could break down the walls and overcome the borders between electronic musical pieces of whatever kind and the traditional understanding what it should be like to play an instrument...

A degree of risk is always welcome in my opinion when it comes to Live music (and also in the studio..)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it becomes more and more interesting...

subunit23 · Post by **subunit23** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:41 pm

Stefan,

following your idea of a "one touch-sensitive surface where you can define parts to react to your pushes and slides", the jazzmutant (http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_overview.php) would do the job.

But beyond that, there is this new multi-touch interface :

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=89sz8ExZndc

If you can create the right Max/MSP patch to go with, it would work wonders with Ableton Live and would give you the degree of freedom, creativity and risk you are looking for.

P.

alien factory · Post by **alien factory** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:16 pm

that's it... everybody should have one...

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:04 pm

But you'd still have to program something in a modular environment like Max/MSP to bridge the gap with Ableton. Once the novelty factor has worn off, is it useful? I'm not suggesting yes or no, just raising questions.

Also, if everyone had one, would that not be a bad thing? Everyone should have the opportunity, but it would become less special and then it would be on to the next 'development'. There always seems to be a need for change...

alien factory · Post by **alien factory** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:10 pm

okay, I correct myself, everybody should have the opportunity...

my thought is not to worry about that everyone could have one, but to be curious what kind of music could develop with this. At least everybody today could buy a guitar, but it's up to you and your needs how you want to express yourself if you buy one and learn how to play...

regards,

stefan

Igor L · Post by **Igor L** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:46 pm

alien factory wrote:do you have some more info on what you already know about that??

None at all. But with Ableton's history of steadily upgrading and improving Live, a hardware controller seems like a logical future step for them.

D K · Post by **D K** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:22 pm

great thread.
having used live as a main part of a performing live group for the past 5 years
in an improvisational sense, i think the whole controller issue is of huge importance....
personally, i believe there will always be a certain disconnect until you are able to remove the extra steps involved with using controllers.
it is very much like trying to dub mix on a digital console where you have to select a channel before having access to it's parameters...by then, the moment is gone.
these formats force you to have to decide your paths in advance, which takes the improv out of the equation.
so, after thousands of dollars and countless hours spent on controllers,
i patiently wait for a touchscreen laptop where i can reach out and access
what i see visually in real time.

tamtam · Post by **tamtam** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:12 pm

alien factory wrote:That's part of what I am talking about. We all know about Bome and Midistroke (for Mac), but this means again programming and not just doing music.

I also use Midistroke to get better access to all parameters that allow me to get a more intuitive way of making music, but LIVE should implement all this ready for use...

I'm all for live being instrument not daw, but 2 points on this:
- Live should do all by it self is fanboy/forum bullshit. If you can do what you want with live & some cheap helper app, you're golden. You have a studio: Did you ever think Yamaha or Roland or whoever sould sell some kind of all-in-one ready-to-use studio that can do everything your studio can do? For what reason?
- the ready to use part: Everything should be ready to go and easy to use. Ever played an instrument? Started '91, so I guess yes

So, yeah, you need to practice, and its boring, and moaning for a guitar thats easier to use and just rocks without you having to practice seems redicoulous. But your Live app should do everything _you_ want right away? Its always the same, more possibilities make it more complicated, and thats a good thing. Yes, you need to invest time in a setup, but you have to do that with every other instrument far more, and that process is what makes your thing unique in the end.