Hi all!
Today is "help a noob day"! To celebrate, please give me some "ear" advice..this is seriously basic stuff here people!
I'm trying to develop my ear and I don't have much confidence at all. I was hoping that you DJ/Producer types could listen to some very short samples and tell me which (to your personal ear) sounds the best.
Don't worry about style or performance, because these are just clips I made to check my sound. I'm sure they're all pretty poorly produced, which is why I need your help to point me in the right direction, so please don't just tell me it sucks, tell me WHY it sucks.
Thanks!!!!
http://pixelboxcreative.com/audio-player.html
Help a noob day---listen to these samples.
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corygilbert
- Posts: 828
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:37 pm
- Location: kyoto, japan
- Contact:
I think that the raw clip, without any eq or compression sounds best.
Although it sounds like there's quite a bit of both on the first one anyway.
The second clip sounds slightly less hot, which might be attributed to your eqing out some of the frequencies, but it sort of serves to deaden the sound some and to my ears makes it sound like a lot of radio guitars nowadays.
Are you using compression on these takes? Cause it sure sounds mad compressed to me. If you're not, let us know what type of signal chain the guitar is using before being recorded, is it hitting a distortion box that compresses before the amp, what kind of amp, are you lining out to the computer? or if not, what type of mic are you using? Or are you using something like guitar rig to process a raw guitar "in the box"?
Many times these prepackaged sounds have large amounts of compression, that tend to make every sound big, bold, loud, and boring.
EQ can be a very subjective adjustment, and not really knowing what type of sound you were going for in the first place, it's hard to relate an opinion.
But my 2c for now:
#1- Sounds best, is more raw, has more dynamic material, might not sound as good in a mix though, but how would I know, I've only heard it by itself.
#2- Sounds overcompressed and somewhat over eq'd. Sounds a bit like it's being heard through a cardboard box.
#3- Even more drastic eq, and I'd still swear something is really over compressing that guitar at some point. Although if you want that Boston "More than a feeling" guitar sound, then stop right there, you've got it.
I'm not being funny either, I love that song and the guitar tone, I'm just saying this may not be what you're going for.
Also, the doubling seems to be causing phasing problems, doesn't seem that they're completely 180 out, but something is fighting for tonality there.
Post some more details about how you recorded this/ what you want it to sound like, and maybe what you're using to process the sound. Good luck.
Although it sounds like there's quite a bit of both on the first one anyway.
The second clip sounds slightly less hot, which might be attributed to your eqing out some of the frequencies, but it sort of serves to deaden the sound some and to my ears makes it sound like a lot of radio guitars nowadays.
Are you using compression on these takes? Cause it sure sounds mad compressed to me. If you're not, let us know what type of signal chain the guitar is using before being recorded, is it hitting a distortion box that compresses before the amp, what kind of amp, are you lining out to the computer? or if not, what type of mic are you using? Or are you using something like guitar rig to process a raw guitar "in the box"?
Many times these prepackaged sounds have large amounts of compression, that tend to make every sound big, bold, loud, and boring.
EQ can be a very subjective adjustment, and not really knowing what type of sound you were going for in the first place, it's hard to relate an opinion.
But my 2c for now:
#1- Sounds best, is more raw, has more dynamic material, might not sound as good in a mix though, but how would I know, I've only heard it by itself.
#2- Sounds overcompressed and somewhat over eq'd. Sounds a bit like it's being heard through a cardboard box.
#3- Even more drastic eq, and I'd still swear something is really over compressing that guitar at some point. Although if you want that Boston "More than a feeling" guitar sound, then stop right there, you've got it.
I'm not being funny either, I love that song and the guitar tone, I'm just saying this may not be what you're going for.
Also, the doubling seems to be causing phasing problems, doesn't seem that they're completely 180 out, but something is fighting for tonality there.
Post some more details about how you recorded this/ what you want it to sound like, and maybe what you're using to process the sound. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice so far!!!
Thanks for the response guys, this is exactly what I wanted.
Ok, the guitar input chain is as follows:
The Master in Live has a Limiter on it. I put it there so that I wouldn't peak above -3db, but I guess that is the lazy way of doing things? Thats it for the first sample. The second sample has some EQ on the master because I was trying to make it sound less boomy. Obviously, I do not know what a "delicate touch" is. The third sample, I doubled the guitars by just dragging the same track...again, probably the lazy way of doing it. I put some EQ on it to try and differentiate the sound and make it pop more. It certainly does sound Boston, but that was by accident.
See, the problem for me, is that I've been playing guitar for many years, but I'm new to recording, and I've always had problems with my ear for tone. I can pick out a riff, chord or scale just by listening to it, but play a power chord with a certain set up, and I won't be able to match the tone to save my life. Does anyone have any advice on how I can improve this?
Ok, the guitar input chain is as follows:
- Guitar
- Boss GT-5 -I used a patch that does have a LOT of compression
- into Live
- Bass
- Behringer Bass V-Amp
- Live
The Master in Live has a Limiter on it. I put it there so that I wouldn't peak above -3db, but I guess that is the lazy way of doing things? Thats it for the first sample. The second sample has some EQ on the master because I was trying to make it sound less boomy. Obviously, I do not know what a "delicate touch" is. The third sample, I doubled the guitars by just dragging the same track...again, probably the lazy way of doing it. I put some EQ on it to try and differentiate the sound and make it pop more. It certainly does sound Boston, but that was by accident.
See, the problem for me, is that I've been playing guitar for many years, but I'm new to recording, and I've always had problems with my ear for tone. I can pick out a riff, chord or scale just by listening to it, but play a power chord with a certain set up, and I won't be able to match the tone to save my life. Does anyone have any advice on how I can improve this?
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tw1nstates
- Posts: 1127
- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:00 pm
The first one as it is. . .
however you could probably do with turning the kick up a couple of db's - I was having trouble making it out. . .
Alternativelyyou could turn up the drums submix by a few db's and the third would also sound good. . .
That's what i thought anyway.
Cheers
TS
however you could probably do with turning the kick up a couple of db's - I was having trouble making it out. . .
Alternativelyyou could turn up the drums submix by a few db's and the third would also sound good. . .
That's what i thought anyway.
Cheers
TS
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave
I also like the first one the best because it had the fullest, most balanced sound.
I also liked the Boston thing in the third example for something different. Just attenuate the guitar about 2-4db, (leave the bass the same level) and that would also be a good candidate.
The second one is unusable compared to the other two. Some strange phase cancellation (?) going on there, perhaps from the eq that almost sounds like it's randomly ducking in/out from the drums.
I also liked the Boston thing in the third example for something different. Just attenuate the guitar about 2-4db, (leave the bass the same level) and that would also be a good candidate.
The second one is unusable compared to the other two. Some strange phase cancellation (?) going on there, perhaps from the eq that almost sounds like it's randomly ducking in/out from the drums.
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corygilbert
- Posts: 828
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 2:37 pm
- Location: kyoto, japan
- Contact:
OK, knowing more about how you recorded it, I would suggest maybe using a patch from the boss that didn't have so much compression?
Now, this is a personal taste, but remember you can always use lives great compressors after recording, to add compression to taste, as well as allowing a little more of that light touch than what the boss is maybe giving you.
But like i said, if you think it sounds right, it is so trust your ears.
I agree with icedsushi that the second one is suffering from a little too much eq and does seem to be causing that "sucking" that sometimes points to overcompression, but is probably the master limiter working with the highly eq'd guitar.
One other thing. If you want to try to double the guitar part, a good method, that I use, as oppossed to just playing it twice is.
1. Take your original guitar part, say it's on channel 1 pan it almost hard left.
2. Make a copy of the guitar part, put it on channel two, (in arrange view)
align it with your 1st part and pan hard right.
Now at this point, you're not really doing anything because the two parts have equal power in either speaker and should sound like a slightly phasey single guitar in the middle.
3. Now zoom in in arrange view on the waveform for channel 2, get pretty close, but not sample close, grab the audio for channel 2 and drag it right a little bit, it's best to turn off the snap to grid for this, and it helps to be able to see the channel 1 waveform while doing it. Move it just a little, and listen to both of the channels playing together, you'll start to get some stereo separation and the distinct feeling of 2 separate guitars that just happen to be playing very well together.
The farther you move the audio for channel 2 the less cohesive it will sound and the more like an echo. Use your ear to tall you how much is enough.
Also watch out for phasing issues, there will be some, but sometimes this is good, in that it can thin out some of the very lowest frequencies first and help the guitar to sit a little better in the mix. But just watch out, if the bass gets all lost and the sound makes you want to cock your head to the side like a dog, then you've got phasing issues.
4. Set both channels to sends only, send them both at 100% to a send and voila' you've got a fake stereo guitar part.
It's kinda a cool effect on vocals as well, it can also give you the feeling that the sound is coming from the left and moving across to the right with every sound. Much cooler than working the pan knob all day.
Good luck.
Now, this is a personal taste, but remember you can always use lives great compressors after recording, to add compression to taste, as well as allowing a little more of that light touch than what the boss is maybe giving you.
But like i said, if you think it sounds right, it is so trust your ears.
I agree with icedsushi that the second one is suffering from a little too much eq and does seem to be causing that "sucking" that sometimes points to overcompression, but is probably the master limiter working with the highly eq'd guitar.
One other thing. If you want to try to double the guitar part, a good method, that I use, as oppossed to just playing it twice is.
1. Take your original guitar part, say it's on channel 1 pan it almost hard left.
2. Make a copy of the guitar part, put it on channel two, (in arrange view)
align it with your 1st part and pan hard right.
Now at this point, you're not really doing anything because the two parts have equal power in either speaker and should sound like a slightly phasey single guitar in the middle.
3. Now zoom in in arrange view on the waveform for channel 2, get pretty close, but not sample close, grab the audio for channel 2 and drag it right a little bit, it's best to turn off the snap to grid for this, and it helps to be able to see the channel 1 waveform while doing it. Move it just a little, and listen to both of the channels playing together, you'll start to get some stereo separation and the distinct feeling of 2 separate guitars that just happen to be playing very well together.
The farther you move the audio for channel 2 the less cohesive it will sound and the more like an echo. Use your ear to tall you how much is enough.
Also watch out for phasing issues, there will be some, but sometimes this is good, in that it can thin out some of the very lowest frequencies first and help the guitar to sit a little better in the mix. But just watch out, if the bass gets all lost and the sound makes you want to cock your head to the side like a dog, then you've got phasing issues.
4. Set both channels to sends only, send them both at 100% to a send and voila' you've got a fake stereo guitar part.
It's kinda a cool effect on vocals as well, it can also give you the feeling that the sound is coming from the left and moving across to the right with every sound. Much cooler than working the pan knob all day.
Good luck.
Great tips!!! Thank you!corygilbert wrote:OK, knowing more about how you recorded it, I would suggest maybe using a patch from the boss that didn't have so much compression?
Now, this is a personal taste, but remember you can always use lives great compressors after recording, to add compression to taste, as well as allowing a little more of that light touch than what the boss is maybe giving you.
But like i said, if you think it sounds right, it is so trust your ears.
I agree with icedsushi that the second one is suffering from a little too much eq and does seem to be causing that "sucking" that sometimes points to overcompression, but is probably the master limiter working with the highly eq'd guitar.
One other thing. If you want to try to double the guitar part, a good method, that I use, as oppossed to just playing it twice is.
1. Take your original guitar part, say it's on channel 1 pan it almost hard left.
2. Make a copy of the guitar part, put it on channel two, (in arrange view)
align it with your 1st part and pan hard right.
Now at this point, you're not really doing anything because the two parts have equal power in either speaker and should sound like a slightly phasey single guitar in the middle.
3. Now zoom in in arrange view on the waveform for channel 2, get pretty close, but not sample close, grab the audio for channel 2 and drag it right a little bit, it's best to turn off the snap to grid for this, and it helps to be able to see the channel 1 waveform while doing it. Move it just a little, and listen to both of the channels playing together, you'll start to get some stereo separation and the distinct feeling of 2 separate guitars that just happen to be playing very well together.
The farther you move the audio for channel 2 the less cohesive it will sound and the more like an echo. Use your ear to tall you how much is enough.
Also watch out for phasing issues, there will be some, but sometimes this is good, in that it can thin out some of the very lowest frequencies first and help the guitar to sit a little better in the mix. But just watch out, if the bass gets all lost and the sound makes you want to cock your head to the side like a dog, then you've got phasing issues.
4. Set both channels to sends only, send them both at 100% to a send and voila' you've got a fake stereo guitar part.
It's kinda a cool effect on vocals as well, it can also give you the feeling that the sound is coming from the left and moving across to the right with every sound. Much cooler than working the pan knob all day.
Good luck.