Logic 8 Excitement Fading

[Timur]

Well, with Komplete 5 and some hardware at hand I don't care too much for included instruments of any DAW, but the Comping features of Logic are very appealing, while the fact that it bounds me to MACs like forever is not. Do third-party Comping plug-ins exists that you could use with Live?

[headquest]

just to be the devils advocate - the upgrade to Live 7 is only $119 and you actually get alot for that

Perhaps. At this point, what is missed out is more obvious to me that what is included, in two senses:
1) the marketing stance puts the spotlight firmly on the instruments and samples which cost extra
2) the improvements to the core functionality have failed to address many of the most frequent feature requests. You know the list

I agree the full package is a different story (although current owners of Live + instruments can get some alright deals)

For me to be a completist I would have to buy the Ablteon Studio boxed version plus the Orchestral bundle, with a total cost in excess of $1200.

Bottom line - I don't have that. So I need to choose between having just the core product, or moving to something else. Given the ongoing rise in Ableton's prices and product portfolio, I think this is probably the point at which I need to do the latter, and get off the Ableton bandwaggon.

For the record though, I'm not a johnny-come-lately. I've been a Live user/owner since version 2, and have encouraged more than a dozen other people I know of to invest in Live (along with countless others on the forums of course, especially kvr).

I think Ableton are focusing alot more on what they do best now

Sorry, but I have to disagree again. If they were focussing sufficiently on the core product they would be implementing some of the basic feature requests that have been repeated over and over and over again on this forum during the last three years.

[andydes]

But you can upgrade from 6 to the Live 7 Suite boxed version for 399 euros (don't know US price). That gives you essential instruments, both drum packs and all the other plug ins bar the full orchestral set. That's not bad.

Looks like the extra content this time round is all sourced from outside and modified, so they probably didn't spend too much of the development on it. I guess the 64 bit audio took most of the effort. Whatever you think of that one.

[pierce200]

The Ableton/Logic thread is going to be a staple around here.
The forum has spoken, Logic 8 is more bang for the buck.
The problem is that they really are two different animals, therefore a lot of you, if funds and computer platform are viable, would integrate both.
I don't use Ableton in performance at all (that's cheating) (just kidding, sort of), my application is as a writing tool. I have a blast with it, like so many of you.
Apple's DAW doesn't flow for me the same way, library or no library.
As usual, this whole deal is a matter of personal preference.
I choose Live, and although I'm a long time Mac cat, Apple has started to rub me the wrong way (that's a whole other issue).
Incidentally, how much library does Pro Tools come with out of the box?
So here's a question; Pro Tools or Logic? (I know, here we go again)
This stuff is fun, huh?

[Igor L]

I like the message that Ableton's price structure sends to Apple: take your shady business tactics and shove them up your a-hole.

[Tarekith]

Funny, I thought that was to Ableton's customers "bend over".

[victorjohn]

The Ableton/Logic thread is going to be a staple around here.
The forum has spoken, Logic 8 is more bang for the buck.
The problem is that they really are two different animals, therefore a lot of you, if funds and computer platform are viable, would integrate both.
I don't use Ableton in performance at all (that's cheating) (just kidding, sort of), my application is as a writing tool. I have a blast with it, like so many of you.
Apple's DAW doesn't flow for me the same way, library or no library.
As usual, this whole deal is a matter of personal preference.
I choose Live, and although I'm a long time Mac cat, Apple has started to rub me the wrong way (that's a whole other issue).
Incidentally, how much library does Pro Tools come with out of the box?
So here's a question; Pro Tools or Logic? (I know, here we go again)
This stuff is fun, huh?

I am with ya on this. I feel like I am the only one that feels that no matter how many loops Apple packages with Logic, the productivity and joy of writing music I get out of Live is not to be beat. Its Logic's price to the new user that makes it so attractive at this time, I think (not to discredit the package, which is quite good), but I simply have to choose the tool that works best for me.

[chrysalis33rpm]

Sorry, but I have to disagree again. If they were focussing sufficiently on the core product they would be implementing some of the basic feature requests that have been repeated over and over and over again on this forum during the last three years.

Just to point out : sidechaining, tempo nudge, tempo changing, a reworked and very much improved drum machine, etc are all features which have been in high demand around here for a long time. They may not have made your top 5 list, thats fine, but you make it sound like they've ignored everything we've been asking for .

Sure, Logic gives you a little more bang for your buck, but they're different animals and not completely comparable, and Apple can of course offer a more competitive pricing stucture than Ableton.

[victorjohn]

Funny, I thought that was to Ableton's customers "bend over".

Same thing Apple said to people who bought Logic Pro 7 in the last year.

[Machinesworking]

just to be the devils advocate - the upgrade to Live 7 is only $119 and you actually get alot for that

Not near as much as you get with the upgrade to Logic Studio: Mainstage, Soundtrack Pro and Logic 8.

I think Ableton are focusing alot more on what they do best now - hence licensing the add-on instruments from AAS rather than piling too much of their own resources into them - so you now have a choice if you want to get the integrated synths (which are good BTW) you can, but they are completely seperate

Yeah and what's up with that? First off, the main advantage to embedded instruments to me is that whatever Microsoft and Apple, or Stienberg throw at Ableton, they upgrade the whole package in house. Before Apple bought Emagic Logic was on OSX with their embedded plug ins, before VST and AU were happening. There's no guarantee that AAS will be as limber as Ableton with updates to the platform or other snags in the process. AAS took a loooong time to go Universal Binary for instance, who knows how long it will take for full 64 bit OS support?
Anyway, I'm getting the basic upgrade to Live 7 when I have the cash, but it's looking like Logic Studio will be the next upgrade. I waited, and I don't see any basic work flow improvements in Live 7, and the Apple Logic team added mostly work flow improvements to Logic.
Personally I am a bit disappointed, the program is a great live device, but lacks in the MIDI song writing and arrangement page, yet the focus is on initial looping still. Not a major disappointment though, and honestly I should just wait for Live 8, I'm sure between the two upgrades it will be well worth it!

[Igor L]

Funny, I thought that was to Ableton's customers "bend over".

Same thing Apple said to people who bought Logic Pro 7 in the last year.

AND the same thing they said to their PC users

[Tarekith]

Funny, I thought that was to Ableton's customers "bend over".

Same thing Apple said to people who bought Logic Pro 7 in the last year.

True dat.

[aisling]

I think it's weird what you get with Logic 8 compared to Live 7 in terms of the amount you pay...

If I was on mac, or about to upgrade my computer, I would go with Logic in a heartbeat right now. I'm in shock about Live 7 - not because of the new features this time, but because of the cost of all those packages.

Talk about Live is going to increasingly revolve around how expensive it is for what you get.

Talk of Logic is going to increasingly revolve around how inexpensive it is for what you get.

just to be the devils advocate - the upgrade to Live 7 is only $119 and you actually get alot for that

I agree the full package is a different story (although current owners of Live + instruments can get some alright deals)

I think Ableton are focusing alot more on what they do best now - hence licensing the add-on instruments from AAS rather than piling too much of their own resources into them - so you now have a choice if you want to get the integrated synths (which are good BTW) you can, but they are completely seperate

I like that approach as well. I am a long time dp user and the upgrade to dp 5 with all it's mediocre VI's was a hassle. I just wanted dp to be UB without the fuff so I can use my own preferable 3rd party stuff (albino , virus powercore).

[condra]

Im astonished how upbeat people have been so far about Live 7.

I'm still waiting for many DAW and workflow feature improvements, and frankly I'm bitterly disappointed with the lack of focus on professional DAW features in Live 7.

[headquest]

Im astonished how upbeat people have been so far about Live 7.

I'm still waiting for many DAW and workflow feature improvements, and frankly I'm bitterly disappointed with the lack of focus on professional DAW features in Live 7.

I think that by bombarding us with announcements of a pile of other stuff, together with a complex price structure, they have managed to distract attention away from how little they have done to improve the core Live programme.

I'm hoping that I am in fact wrong though. If so I may yet do the basic download upgrade for Live only.