on behalf of musicians i declare war on the mainstream media

[philipc]

you can change the media, but there will still be a demand for hatred, violence, female objectification- while the media perpetuates hatred, stereotyping, absolutist thinking, etc, there is a market for it because several thousands want to watch it.

true, so it then follows does it not that we must either deny people what they want or force them to want something else?

[jamester]

true, so it then follows does it not that we must either deny people what they want or force them to want something else?

No. You cannot force anything on anyone, it won't stick. You can only present quality and hope that it gets noticed and received. The positive is that now more than ever there are avenues open with which to get that quality material out. This is all part of the collapse of the "mainstream".

[ze2be]

im listening...

[Tone Deft]

http://www.areyougeneric.org/action_boy ... _video.php <-- guerilla marketing anti-AOL

there was a video on www.woostercollective.com where they made up fake (madonna/britney/whoevever/someone's) CDs and swapped them out in stores. great site anyway, I don't check it enough.

[philipc]

true, so it then follows does it not that we must either deny people what they want or force them to want something else?

No. You cannot force anything on anyone, it won't stick. You can only present quality and hope that it gets noticed and received. The positive is that now more than ever there are avenues open with which to get that quality material out. This is all part of the collapse of the "mainstream".

That is the third way indeed. Unfortunately it is the first two that people nearly always embrace when they wish to illicit change. I am all for creating quality alternatives!

[Pitch Black]

"Don't hate the media - become the media"
- Coldcut

(reality-shows notwithstanding, I guess... )

[mcconaghy]

I'm in.

[jmouse]

I-Love-my-mac-I-love-my-mac-I-Love-my-ma.................

[knotkranky]

It would be best to buy 30 seconds and declare war so they know it's on

Gone in 30 Seconds: What Networks Are Charging

Tue Oct 2, 7:03 PM ET


NEW YORK For the fourth consecutive season, Fox's American Idol is network TV's highest priced regular series for advertisers. The cost of a 30-second unit for upcoming episodes (which begin in January 2008) is $700,000 for both the Monday and Tuesday installments of the program, according to media buying and network sources. The cost for the Monday installment is roughly in line with last year, while the Tuesday time slot is commanding a slightly higher rate, those sources said.

American Idol, on which would-be singing sensations compete for a record deal, has by far the biggest audience--around 28 million--of any regularly scheduled network series, and is down only slightly for its sixth installment, said Brad Adgate, svp, director of research at Horizon Media. For the last few seasons, the Simon Fuller-created Idol essentially drove Fox to victory in the ratings race among adults 18 to 49, the key demo for most prime-time advertisers.

No other regularly scheduled show comes close to Idol's price tag. Behind the two nights of Idol, the third most expensive show for the new season is the ABC Thursday night hit Grey's Anatomy, which fetches an average $465,000 for each 30-second unit.

The series rounding out the top 10 most expensive programs across the five major broadcast networks are: Desperate Housewives (ABC), $378,000; Sunday Night Football (NBC), $350,000; Heroes (NBC), $330,000; The Simpsons and 24 (both Fox), both $300,000, and CSI (CBS) and House (Fox), both priced at $290,000.

The most expensive new show on the schedule (and ranked 11th priciest overall) is Grey's spin-off Private Practice, airing Wednesdays at 9 p.m., and for which advertisers ponied up an average $255,000. Shari Anne Brill, vp and director of programming at Aegis Media's Carat, predicts the series will be the highest ranked new show of the season, drawing an average 7.2 million adults 18-49 each week. (See related story on page 6.)

Rounding out ABC's top-five most expensive shows, according to sources, are Dancing With the Stars and Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, which are both commanding a price of $250,000. Among other new shows on ABC, Dirty Sexy Money is drawing about $168,000, while Pushing Daisies is collecting $115,000. Cavemen costs $100,000 and Carpoolers is priced at $90,000. Network representatives declined to comment.

At CBS, Survivor is the second most expensive show behind CSI, with spots going for $240,000. Two and a Half Men is the third priciest show in the lineup at $230,000. The Big Bang Theory on Monday is the network's costliest new show at $138,000. Tuesday drama Cane is next at $128,000, followed by Viva Laughlin, $110,000; Moonlight, $104.000, and Kid Nation, $101,000.

At $185,000 per :30, Bionic Woman is NBC's most expensive new series. It also rounds out NBC's top five in cost, behind My Name Is Earl ($195,000), The Office ($210,000), Heroes and football. Journeyman is the net's second most expensive new show at $165,000, followed by Chuck ($125,000) and Life ($110,000).

With a price tag of $190,000, new Monday drama K-Ville is Fox's priciest new show, followed by the new Wednesday comedy Back to You ($175,000), Great American Band ($109,000), Don't Forget the Lyrics ($100,000), Kitchen Nightmares ($75,000) and Nashville ($60,000).

America's Next Top Model is the CW network's most expensive program, with spots attracting nearly $175,000. Beauty and the Geek is next, with a :30 spot averaging $115,000. Wednesday drama Gossip Girl is the network's priciest new show--and the net's third most expensive overall--at $109,000 per :30, followed by Reaper, which at $85,000 is the network's fifth highest priced show overall, behind Thursday stalwart Smallville at $97,000.

[jamester]

"Don't hate the media - become the media"
- Coldcut

(reality-shows notwithstanding, I guess... )

This is exactly right. The reality shows play a factor too, unfortunately.

[Oscar F]

Go ahead piss away on the mainstream and when all you anti-mainstream idealists become the majority what does make all of you then ?

The neo-mainstream perhaps.

Sounds like a bunch of indie "non-comformists" all dressing to a certain code, liking a certain music and having the same interests all bagging everyone else out for being sheep.

You're still part of the herd even if your flock is of a different fleece.

[paradiddle]

[sweetjesus]

Go ahead piss away on the mainstream and when all you anti-mainstream idealists become the majority what does make all of you then ?

The neo-mainstream perhaps.

Sounds like a bunch of indie "non-comformists" all dressing to a certain code, liking a certain music and having the same interests all bagging everyone else out for being sheep.

You're still part of the herd even if your flock is of a different fleece.

theres nothing wrong with being 'majority' or mainstream, its just how theyre going about it.

its ok to make 1 billion dollars a year profit instead of 10 billion.

its okay to provide a platform like Idol for fostering new talent, but not when its used to mould artists into predefined packages they already have in mind.

its just how these greedy fucks are going about it and it's actually devalued out creative works.

[Oscar F]

Go ahead piss away on the mainstream and when all you anti-mainstream idealists become the majority what does make all of you then ?

The neo-mainstream perhaps.

Sounds like a bunch of indie "non-comformists" all dressing to a certain code, liking a certain music and having the same interests all bagging everyone else out for being sheep.

You're still part of the herd even if your flock is of a different fleece.

theres nothing wrong with being 'majority' or mainstream, its just how theyre going about it.

its ok to make 1 billion dollars a year profit instead of 10 billion.

its okay to provide a platform like Idol for fostering new talent, but not when its used to mould artists into predefined packages they already have in mind.

its just how these greedy fucks are going about it and it's actually devalued out creative works.

Oh I agree with you in many respects SweetJesus.
I guess I am more concerned with the notion that anti-mainstream can indeed become a new mainstream mode of thought .
Either end of the spectrum is in many respects as dangerous as the other.
It isn't just a case of greed either.
The whole bigger is better dichotomy.
This is reinforced on so many levels in society at an almost subconscious level.
One almost feels as if populism reigns supreme.
Add to that the fact that we all need longer harder erections.
Women should have bigger breasts.
Men should have well defined abs.
You should own the biggest house.
Have the biggest pay packet.
Be seen wearing or liking the most popular things.
Sometimes I feel like we live in a self loathing, narcissistic, be anything other than yourself, me too, I'm a fabulously nobody, nihilistic culture that is obsessed with a veritable Warholian 15 minutes of fame at any cost.
The epitaph for the masses should probably read "Eat Shit, 10 Million Flies Can't be Wrong".
We really need to change peoples perspectives on what true success is.
Our worth isn't based on our merits as individuals, whether we be rich or poor.
Being Human alone is worth something and each one of us is special.
This holds true no matter what our station in life.
Everything around us is like a distraction that prevents each and everyone of us all from finding our "True North".
For me that is the greatest tragedy of all.
People going through life, chasing the biggest lie of all and never ever realizing there existence as the creature they where always meant to be.
We are all beautifully fucked up, flawed and contradictory in one way shape or form and the sooner we all realize that true beauty lies in our imperfections and flaws the better off we will all be.
Being forced into a seemingly digitized world of airbrushed beauty, binary logic and populist me too ideology where the imperfect self and the notion of community no longer exist is a depressing thought.
Quite frankly I wonder whether humanity has reached an evolutionary regression beyond the mean.
How as organic individuals can we evolve in parallel with technology that is fast reaching an evolutionary singularity is beyond me also.
We either homogenize and embrace the machine, in essence becoming cyber-kinetic organisms or more than likely face a mass extinction event unless we make some magical quantum evolutionary leap through natural processes of evolution and or natural genetic mutation.
That said I will shut up as that is going way off topic and into philosophical spheres of discussion best left to another thread altogether.

[djgroovy]

I'm up for it.