Seriously, are you guys smoking crack?

[nolus]

I think the prices for the single instruments are quite reasonable, and especially the application only upgrade price of EUR 99 is really ok - I'd pay that for Drum Racks and the slicing feature alone!

And then again, when you buy the bundle, each instrument get's down to about EUR 75 in average, which is also very good value for money.

The thing that irritates me is that when you own Sampler and Operator already, they don't subtract those average EUR 75 each from the bundle (i.e. EUR 150 altogether), but credit you a mere EUR 20 each!!

I think you need to do your sums again.

boxed live upgrade is 129 Euro - boxed "live suite" upgrade is 399 euro.
difference = 270 Euros for 7 instruments. (operator, sampler, electric, analog, tension, drum machines and session drums)
average cost per instrument less than 39 euro

my individual offer (already own operator) is 359 euro, saving 40 euro.

[dab]

The thing that irritates me is that when you own Sampler and Operator already, they don't subtract those average EUR 75 each from the bundle (i.e. EUR 150 altogether), but credit you a mere EUR 20 each!!

I love Live6 and will support future development, by paying for the upgrade and any other upgrades that come along on an yearly basis. But I do not agree with the small credit the abs. are giving previous owners of sampler and operator.

dab

[dr.wackler]

You can not compare Logic 8´s pricing with Live. Apple sells Logic way to cheap, because they want people like you to buy there program. They can get their profit from selling their hardware, but this is a bit unfair. Usual softwarecompanies can not afford to sell their products under break even point.
If you look at Logic 8 there are not as half as much good new features as there are in Live 7. Mostly they did some graphic changes and added some little improvements to the plugins. The even copied some functions from Live i.e. zooming with mouse.
I find it ok, that I don´t have to buy Classic instruments or old drummachines stuff that I already have bought over the years with Battery, and other sample libraries.

I own Logic 8 and the upgrade was 299 Euros.
I understand, that I can buy the Live Suite upgrade (download) also for 299 Euros.

This is fair to me. And I am supporting a company, that is really inventing things instead of copying features and improving the worflow of their product...

And you also have to count in, that for Apple the development costs for the extras they throw in have long charged off! I mean, the tons of gigs of sample material is mostly Soundtrack Pro content and Jam Packs, both of which they've already made quite some money of. Same goes for the included instruments and effects, that have been around for quite some years.

[dr.wackler]

I think you need to do your sums again.

boxed live upgrade is 129 Euro - boxed "live suite" upgrade is 399 euro.
difference = 270 Euros for 7 instruments. (operator, sampler, electric, analog, tension, drum machines and session drums)
average cost per instrument less than 39 euro

I was counting the discount from the full price that you get for each instrument and then assumed the same disount for Sampler and Operator.

But well, your calculation is fair enough. Makes me feel a bit better about the more money I spent on Sampler and Operator.

my individual offer (already own operator) is 359 euro, saving 40 euro.

Now that is really weird: I own Operator and Sampler, and my individual offer is also 359 EUR....

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

I own Sampler - only - and don't get a reduction at all. I guess there's something wrong with the "individual upgrade price calculator".

-M

[benlowther]

I think the pricing is more then fair. I bought a full copy of Live 6 when it came out, and now for about £100/110 I can upgrade to Live 7 and add the Drum Machine pack in. Cheap and I get to pick the upgrades I want.

Not everyone wants all those add-ons, so splitting them out makes sense to me.

[nolus]

I think you need to do your sums again.

boxed live upgrade is 129 Euro - boxed "live suite" upgrade is 399 euro.
difference = 270 Euros for 7 instruments. (operator, sampler, electric, analog, tension, drum machines and session drums)
average cost per instrument less than 39 euro

I was counting the discount from the full price that you get for each instrument and then assumed the same disount for Sampler and Operator.

But well, your calculation is fair enough. Makes me feel a bit better about the more money I spent on Sampler and Operator.

my individual offer (already own operator) is 359 euro, saving 40 euro.

Now that is really weird: I own Operator and Sampler, and my individual offer is also 359 EUR....

well I must admit to some confusion myself. because I also own an eic license, but that upgrade is defined as being free so I didn't count it, but if I do a similar calculation for the download version my discount is only 20 euro!?

[kramerica]

You can not compare Logic 8´s pricing with Live. Apple sells Logic way to cheap, because they want people like you to buy there program. They can get their profit from selling their hardware, but this is a bit unfair. Usual softwarecompanies can not afford to sell their products under break even point.

100% True.

Apple is doing to the DAW market what Microsoft did to the gaming market w/ xbox. They are attempting to strong arm competition by using their large cash flows to sell their own products for far less than they cost to produce. Microsoft lost hundreds of dollars on every Xbox sold in order to gain a foothold in the market (at any cost) like how apple is (probably) losing money on every Logic 8 unit sold.

It's not immoral for Apple to do this as it's just an example of fair competition in a capitalist economy. Apple is the Wal-Mart of DAWs right now and you need to decide if you want to support the "mom and pop's" DAW makers (Abes) or the "big box retailer" of DAWs (Apple).

Among other considerations of course. But it's just silly to get angry over Abes pricing structure. To try and argue that they should compete with Apple's strong arm tactic is just silly.

[noisetonepause]

It's not immoral for Apple to do this

Yeah, it is. It's Pure Evil and bad for users.

as it's just an example of the worst sides of our Pure Evil capitalist economy.

Fixed that for you..

[kramerica]

It's not immoral for Apple to do this

Yeah, it is. It's Pure Evil and bad for users.

as it's just an example of the worst sides of our Pure Evil capitalist economy.

Fixed that for you..

Don't you have to believe in God in order to believe in evil?

[hacktheplanet]

First people complain about not being able to upgrade individual things and just pay for what they want. Then they complain that it's not included in the package for the entire price.
Jeez you don't have to buy it if you don't want it. Do you really NEED any of the extra instrument collections? If not, then don't effing buy them. It's not that hard.

[kramerica]

First people complain about not being able to upgrade individual things and just pay for what they want. Then they complain that it's not included in the package for the entire price.
Jeez you don't have to buy it if you don't want it. Do you really NEED any of the extra instrument collections? If not, then don't effing buy them. It's not that hard.

No, it IS hard! They've advertised a product that I want and can't afford! Somebody call the WAAAAAAHMBULANCE!

[dr.wackler]

I own Sampler - only - and don't get a reduction at all. I guess there's something wrong with the "individual upgrade price calculator".

Maybe they are considering in their calculation how long you've been using Sampler and/or Operator or something like that (I've owned both from when they were first released). But it is weird - I've seen numerous users reporting different personal discounts for the same products they own (be it Sampler and Operator, or only one of them).
Most probably the calculator is indeed not working correctly.


But hey:

Ableton Live 7 and Suite Upgrade Pricing Calculator

Here are the upgrade and bundle offers that will be available to you upon the release of Ableton Live 7 and the other announced Ableton products, based on the products that are registered to your user account:

(Note: Prices of upgrades and bundles may be subject to change before the release.)

[dr.wackler]

First people complain about not being able to upgrade individual things and just pay for what they want. Then they complain that it's not included in the package for the entire price.
Jeez you don't have to buy it if you don't want it. Do you really NEED any of the extra instrument collections? If not, then don't effing buy them. It's not that hard.

Like said before, I think the individual prices for the add-ons are absolutely reasonable.
It's just that the calculator and what they credit you for already owning Sampler and Operator seems a bit weird and off.
And yes, it is a good thing that they sell the add-ons as such - individual add-ons, so you can decide what you want/need or not. And the upgrade price for the download version of the application only is a no brainer.

[djadonis206]

I mean, you're both correct but I have to side with heinz here

I never indulged those conversations but I read 'em

seems odd to keep the boat a float the abes claimed ableton sounded just as good as Logic, Cubase etc so why update the audio engine?

personally I'm not so anal so I don't care (actually I do a little) but...


anywayz, you shouldn't do drugs unless you're really hot