Really need help buying new computer and Ram/64 bit/vista

zazamoth · Post by **zazamoth** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:39 pm

Hi everyone,

I really need help with some computer questions, I was just about to buy a new comp to run live6 (7 soon) and sonar 6 and reason 4. and i have hit a brick wall.

I had all but made up my mind to buy a
Quad Core with 4GB of ram Running on Vista Home Prem..(or XP)

but one of the shops i was looking at had an info panel pop up and state that: if i wanted to put 4 to 8GB of ram, i would have to either install Vista x64 or XP 64 if i wanted address all of the Ram(but no where else is warning about this).

i noticed there are a few folk on here with 4GB or 8GB and not running on a 64 bit system i wondered if you might be able to help me..or if anyone who knows could help.

Is it as i think?.. that if you have 4GB of Ram on a non-64bit system that you might only be able to access 3GB at any one time? or would it be a waste of cash spending it on extra ram.

I'm unsure about moving on to a 64 bit system as i have heard some plug-ins just wont work..

If anyone could help that would be great. I can't seem to get a straight answer and i thought asking other folk using the same stuff as me would prob be the best to people to ask.

Many, many thanks in advance
I'm just a wee bit out of my depth here

Gabe

Kirb · Post by **Kirb** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:27 am

I am also looking to get a desktop soon.

Some sources I've read have stated that 32 bit XP/Vista can address 3 GB of RAM, others said 4 GB. I haven't exactly figured out which is correct, but the price difference isn't too big, plus if you ever want to upgrade to 64 bit XP/Vista, which can see up to 16 gigs, you'll be set.

Also, from what I've learned it's not just plug-ins that need to be checked for 64 bit compatibility, it's your audio interface drivers as well (some companies are lagging I think).

My advice would be to stick with 32 bit XP/Vista for now with 4 GB of RAM.

Also check:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

Sorry I couldn't be of more help, I find the topic interesting/confusing as well.

Kirb

zazamoth · Post by **zazamoth** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:14 pm

Cheers Kirb,

Yeah, i'm starting to find all this computer stuff quite intresting myself..even to the point were i'm starting to understand some of it...(it's a sad day when you start to speak computer geek..

)

and yeah.. I had read some where that your audio drivers might not work, i know that my keyboard has only a Beta driver for vista..which sucks!! and sym choirs word builder just wont work in the 64 bit version, as the word engine is still 16 bit!? So it looks like that would be a good reason not to go 64 just yet.

Thanks for answering about the ram question..any info is good info, i am thinking that i will just go with the 4gb of ram and as you suggested sticking with XP..but i have also thought about using a dual boot system.

one with XP and the second drive running on XP 64 or Vista 64 which, as i understand it would cover all the bases..though i have no actuall idea how you would go about it..lol. But it does seem to sound like a good suggestion.

thanks again for trying to help mate, and for the link..let me know how you get on buying your new desktop and if i find out any more i'll pass it on to you as well...though i think i can feel my brain slipping down the back of my spine the more i read into this stuff

Cheers Gabe

Kirb · Post by **Kirb** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:28 pm

Gabe-

Definately look into a dual boot system in my opinion, like you said it'll cover you for the future, since all audio interfaces, plugins etc will all go 64 bit sooner or later.

I'm actually a little while away from affording a desktop, but I'm trying to get some of these questions figured out too so I don't f*ck it up when I do buy one (this reminds me of a geeky question I'm gonna start a new thread with).

Take a look at sonicalabs.com, they have desktops with removable system drives for easy dual boot.

I hear what you're saying about brain melt, it's totally interesting juggling being a computer geek with being a musician/producer, etc.

Good luck with it all,
Kirb

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:14 pm

I am running quadcore, 4 gigs of ram and vista 64bit. The system is very stable, and i the only place i have had any problems was syncing my new phone with my pc. (my pda sync's fine but it would be fun to have all 3 synced up).

I am a software developer, and since 64bit might be a future for most stuff, i have to run a 64bit system. The system is completely stable when developing, i had a few problems with some video codecs (well, i use VideoLan for movies now, so no troubles)..

Ableton live + all my instruments runs fine.

So me and a few of my dev-partners would have to say that 64bit systems works great, and the bad rumors are just what it is.. rumors.

Audio related stuff i have tested:

Ableton live 6
flstudio xxl (with most of the following vsts incl. sytrus)
refx nexus
refx vanguard
discodsp discovery pro + all of the others
Voxengo elephant 2
voxengo marquis comp.
sylenth 1
db audioware sidechain comp
kjaerhus audio - various compressors

+ lots of others (either owned by me or demo versions)

THE ONLY THING i could not get to work was sidechain compressor from
http://www.geocities.jp/webmaster_of_sss/vst/

Apart from that, no problems at all!

If you would like me to test anything please tell

edit:
Now i look at it i have 1 warning: check your interfaces and external hardware!!

Of course also spend a little time checking all your software. I'll happily test some stuff for you as i mentioned earlier.

zazamoth · Post by **zazamoth** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:15 pm

Hey Kirb,

yeah, it's looking like a dual boot system at the moment..but i'm really Into the idea of just going 64bit, my projects can be a little top heavy so the more i can get out of the Ram and hard disk the better. But as you said, i'm also worried about blowing my cash for nothing..gotta get it right the first time.

I'll defo have a look at that site,had a quick glance over it there but i'll have more time tomorrow to sit and take it all in.

thanks for the help man, good luck with it all..I don't know too much, but if you need any help or just someone to run an idea past just Pm me.

Cheers much gabe

zazamoth · Post by **zazamoth** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:57 pm

Hey thefool,

That's cool of you Man!! it's great to hear from someone running a 64 bit system and finding it stable to boot..pardon the pun!

and thank you for the offer of help like that, that's really cool of you.

My big worry is some of my older stuff (when i say older stuff i mean it's only about a year old) such as NI's Intakt and Kompakt as they are discontiued now, I dont know if they will run on Vista 64 and there's no point asking NI as they never bloody answer me anyway! but I may be able to live with out them.. but if you happen to know if they work that would be great.

But i was thinking of buying East West Symphonic Choirs but i have read some reports saying that it's word builder just wont work well on Vista/64 and i dont think you can even download a demo of it..

The thing is other than my Ram questions and my old plug-ins, this is prob the only thing stopping me from buying my PC...it would be great if you could download the Demo but I dont think they do one at all..but I thank you for your offer mate..again that's really cool of you.

Infact now that i have said that. You don't happen to know how Reason works with Vista 64? I Don't think I have read any bad reports.. but just incase you know?

I cant actually think of any other software off the top of my head but if i think of any i'll get in touch mate.

Thanks very much for all your help..I owe you a beer

If your already clued about reason or EW sym Choirs that would be great but don't put yourself through too much trouble

Many thanks, keep in touch

Gabe

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:30 pm

zazamoth wrote: But i was thinking of buying East West Symphonic Choirs but i have read some reports saying that it's word builder just wont work well on Vista/64 and i dont think you can even download a demo of it..

The thing is other than my Ram questions and my old plug-ins, this is prob the only thing stopping me from buying my PC...it would be great if you could download the Demo but I dont think they do one at all..but I thank you for your offer mate..again that's really cool of you.

Infact now that i have said that. You don't happen to know how Reason works with Vista 64? I Don't think I have read any bad reports.. but just incase you know?

I cant actually think of any other software off the top of my head but if i think of any i'll get in touch mate.

Thanks very much for all your help..I owe you a beer

If your already clued about reason or EW sym Choirs that would be great but don't put yourself through too much trouble

Many thanks, keep in touch

Gabe

Hi!
Well truth to say my asio drivers for the old Audigy ZS2 is bugging once in a while. Same with macromedia flash, but lately, it has begun to work much better. The problem seems only to arise when i select a certain of the asio channels with it, but never with one of the others. This could be the soundcard too, but i'm going for a pro card soon and i'll have to check up on vista 64bit.

About Reason, they claim this:

Propellerhead Software has performed compatibility testing of its applications on Microsoft's new platform, Windows Vista.

I am downloading the demo of version 4 and i'll just run a quick test with it.

About East West they write this:

PURCHASE OF THIS PRODUCT AFTER JANUARY 18, 2007 QUALIFIES FOR A FREE* UPGRADE TO THE EASTWEST PLAY ADVANCED SAMPLE ENGINE UPON RELEASE. THIS UPGRADE INCLUDES UNIVERSAL BINARY (INTEL MAC) AND MICROSOFT VISTA (32 & 64-bit) COMPATIBILITY!

http://www.eastwestsamples.com/details.php?cd_index=963

Okay while writing this article the reason demo got home. Demo version launches fine. Automatically selected Asio. the demo song plays fine with a buffer on 10ms. It has some trouble automatically setting up my midi keyboard, but added it manually and it works. Same with the uc33e.
Oh and never heard any bad reports.

So at least from this rather unproff and quite fast look, it seems to work just fine

Sorry, but i can't help you out with intakt or Kompakt though.

But if you get any other ideas of software you'd like tested, please report in

Again be sure to check if your hardware will work! especially interfaces.

zazamoth · Post by **zazamoth** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:00 pm

Hey thefool,

Again the was really cool of you Dude!!

Many thanks for having a look at Reason..again I owe you a beer or two..

The thing you were saying about the "auto-find" with the keyboard does not surprise me, I had a lot of trouble getting Reason 3 to find my M-Audio Ozone. agian thanks for cheacking out on your system and thanks for taking the time to look into it for me!

And I hadn't noticed the thing about East west Choirs, I think i may have been on Soundsonline rather than the link you gave me. So thats a good sign..

Looks like Vista is looking like a good runner and i was reading today the there is no plan to update (fully) XP to run Directx 10, something about the issue of closing down support by 2010..but it was on a computer forum..who knows how much truth there is to it.

So i'm still thinking along the lines of a dual boot..with XP as a back up
(in case some stuff doesn't work) with Vista 64 as the main OS. but your help is certainly pushing me toward the Vista set up.

Yeah at the moment I dont have many interfaces but I will keep an eye out for that Mate.

Oh and don't worry about intakt and Kompakt you been more than helpfull mate and i should think about upgrading to Kontact 3 anyway..where the hell i am going to find the money for that is something else though..lol

I cant think of anymore software at the moment. Seems I might have it covered at the moment, because I will now have to think about buying the actual computer and costing it..so i think my bank balance is shot lol.. but thanks again !!
if i do think of anything i'll give you a shout..wish there where more people like you, and if i can return the favour just let me know.

Many thanks for all your help and Keep in touch Mate!!

cheers Gabe

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:29 pm

Hey!

Well I suppose a dual boot might not be a bad thing. But even though I've had some troubles in the start with some audio drivers, so far it hasn't refused to start. Haven't been in fail-safe even one time

The people complaining about speed simply have too slow computers

Mine is also quad core, and you talk about 4gigs of ram like i have too. Thats SUFFIENT. Just think about restarting in time you can't even turn on and off the television on. AND you can simply just do tons of things at the same time and not feel a shit! Its freedom..

1pauper1 · Post by **1pauper1** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:35 am

want 64 bit
want up to 16 gig ram
up to 3 terabytes of hd
it's easy....
get a mac

ravebot · Post by **ravebot** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:35 am

theres no need to have 4gb ram!
2G DDR2 800 is enough! stop wasting money!
make sure you get a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3 motherboard
and
Quad Core Q6600
ur laughing!!

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:57 pm

1) Personally i put gigabyte motherboards in the discount class. But i've heard good stuff about them. My personal preferences are Asus and MSI.

2) why the hell wouldn't he buy 4 gig of ram? I use much more than 2 all the time. Especially some of the stuff i'm developing requires a huge amount of memory. And if you use a lot of samples and virtual instruments, it would be a stupid idea to save money on it. When i look at my joblist / memory usage i often use OVER 2 gigabytes. The more stuff you can have in the memory, the faster your ps runs.

QuadCore q6600? Thats a good advice

but from my viewpoint, i couldn't do it with 2 gigabytes of ram. And especially sincde you got such a big processor wouldn't it be stupid to limit your multitasking of heavy app's because you didn't purchase enough ram? Besides memory is cheap these days.

zazamoth · Post by **zazamoth** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:12 pm

1pauper1 wrote:want 64 bit
want up to 16 gig ram
up to 3 terabytes of hd
it's easy....
get a mac

Hey Pauper, yeah i had looked into the Idea of "going Mac" with the Motu line in mind, but i think most of my programmes are PC only Version, So i would have to buy a lot of my stuff again..which which sucks..and right now my money is quite tight. That's not to say I wont give it a damn good think though..16GB you say?...you could blow up worlds with that

..i like it..didn't know you go get that high yet!!
thanks for the heads up!!

Cheers Gabe

zazamoth · Post by **zazamoth** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:35 pm

ravebot wrote:theres no need to have 4gb ram!
2G DDR2 800 is enough! stop wasting money!
make sure you get a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3 motherboard
and
Quad Core Q6600
ur laughing!!

Hi there ravebot,

thanks for the advice, it was the Q6600 i was thinking about..but as far as Ram goes i do have some quite top heavy projects..i do a lot of orchestra stuff and my computer (it's only single core) struggles with a gig and half of ram..and thats with me hacking my usage down as much as i can by bouncing down and branching string sections and other groups by editing down some stuff i would prefer to keep.

So i want to give my self as much i overhead as i can, but thanks for the advice, it may be due to cost of other parts i mat have to go with 2bg of ram. I 'll have a wee look at the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3 motherboard thanks for giving me the Info mate.

Cheers Gabe