Can Ableton produce quality sound?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
tylenol
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:31 am
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: Can Ableton produce quality sound?

Post by tylenol » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:02 am

radib wrote:
AnalogBalrog wrote:"Bliss", "Markus Guentner", "Jean F. Cochois", "Royksopp", "Deaf Center", "Junior Boys" and "Helios", I really enjoy the clarity and production values of the recordings.
One of the most funniest things I ever read (and believe me: I read a lot of crap). Cause those artist I guess use Fruity Loops and Music-Maker. Its easy to get a high, sharpened clean sound if you you just manipulate samples with EQ and Limiting. No dependence to the DAW.
I don't know most of those bands, but both royksopp and junior boys use mostly hardware, based on what they've said in interviews (and seeing them live). I highly doubt either of them use fruity loops or music maker. Junior boys have said in interviews that as far as DAWs go, they have used Live, Logic, and PT. Royksopp have said that as far as sequencing goes they actually use some ancient DOS software "Sequencer Plus Gold".

But you are right that their sound (and the sound of anyone reasonably skilled) is completely independent of what DAW they use (to the extent that they even use one).

radib
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:11 am

Post by radib » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:29 am

Sure they don´t use FL or MM. It was just a joke, cause I don´t find their sound very special to realize.
-


"after all it wouldn´t have been possible without the impossible."

radib
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:11 am

Post by radib » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:31 am

sweetjesus wrote:i strongly believe in the right hands you will get better results from a behdinger mic + preamp + average soundcard + ableton than you would with Pro Tools HD + Neuman + Avalon microphones in the wrong hands
Thats an extreme comparison. Sure there are people who can pull amazing sounds of cheapest equipment, but in general you will have a quality gap between both of those configs.
-


"after all it wouldn´t have been possible without the impossible."

Atomikat
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:46 pm
Location: Elizabeth,NJ,USA and Colombia

Re: Can Ableton produce quality sound?

Post by Atomikat » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:45 am

radib wrote: A mic under 1000€ won´t make it, similar with preamp and A/D. Don´t waste time with cheap allrounders called "soundcards" or "interfaces" that the industry tries to catch you with by strong but unfullfilled promise.
So...do you think that most of us here don't sound good because we don't have the money to buy expensive equipment? Almost all the people here use "soundcards" or "interfaces" and mics under 1000. 8O

radib
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:11 am

Re: Can Ableton produce quality sound?

Post by radib » Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:35 am

Atomikat wrote:So...do you think that most of us here don't sound good because we don't have the money to buy expensive equipment? Almost all the people here use "soundcards" or "interfaces" and mics under 1000. 8O
Yes I think there is a gap regarding sound quality between the music I like listening to and the most of what users do here. Sorry. How much it depends on gear, I don´t know. What was written the lines you did quote is based on personal experience with different equipment; and the result of that learning process.
-


"after all it wouldn´t have been possible without the impossible."

Nogi
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:18 am
Location: C@L

Post by Nogi » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:21 am

sweetjesus wrote:its upto the end users.
i strongly believe in the right hands you will get better results from a behdinger mic + preamp + average soundcard + ableton than you would with Pro Tools HD + Neuman + Avalon microphones in the wrong hands
Yes, yes. The current 'Future Music' has an article on Beck's 'Odelay'. The studio assets the Dust Brothers had were very limited by today's standard - $90 microphones and something about wishing they had even GarageBand then. Interesting note also about how all their new material is recorded in Ableton Live!

Macrostructure
Posts: 665
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:51 pm

Post by Macrostructure » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:36 am

Tone Deft wrote:the good thing about being a n00b is that you're years from being able to tell the difference.

there's a demo version of Live available on their site, check it out.

try a few demos and use whichever program you got along with the best. IMO Live is easy to pick up (leave the help box open in the lower left corner, watch the videos on this site) and it's just damn fun to PLAY with.

seriously, sound quality is GREAT with ALL DAWs, that's the last thing you need to focus on.

yes, Live can make great sounding recordings, it's not even an issue.
good helpful answer :)

forge
Posts: 17422
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:47 am
Location: Queensland, AU
Contact:

Post by forge » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:03 am


Yotone
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:09 am

Post by Yotone » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:48 am

I saw Helios live last year and he was using a laptop with Fruity Loops. I don't know if that is his main DAW of choice or not but he was certainly using it to good effect. It was a really great gig.

pepezabala
Posts: 3503
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: In Berlin, finally

Post by pepezabala » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:51 am

yesterday I read this interview with "The Books". They use soundforge and acid. probably one of the best sounding records I heard in lots of time.

fatrabbit
Posts: 1308
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:41 am
Location: Bath, UK

Post by fatrabbit » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:51 am

Where did you hear that Live's quality is inferior?

Someone did a test recently on here whereby the exact same audio was rendered out of Live and another DAW (think it was Sonar). If there was no difference, then the two audio files should cancel each other out, which they did.

Choose the tool that's best for you. I've heard people say that they prefer Logic because it sounds "warmer", but that's just because everyone and their dog knows exactly how to use Logic to best effect. Live isn't exactly the same in it's operation (as you'd expect moving from one DAW to another), and it's down to personal skill whether you can create a production that is of "great" quality. Although all this is subjective, and tests like the above prove this.

Thankfully I believe Live 7 will include a factsheet on it's audio-engine to debunk any such claims.

AnalogBalrog
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:34 pm

Post by AnalogBalrog » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:17 pm

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

@Sweetjesus and Macrostructure - I really appreciate your suggestions.

@Radib... why poke fun at me? :roll:

@Yotone - I'm surprised to hear he used FruityLoops when you saw him. Keith went to the Berkeley School of Music and is a very skilled pianist. His soundscapes that he has produced are quite simply waaaay beyond FruityLoops. I've used FL, and while cute and fun, I can't imagine it doing anything near the production level of Helios' "Unomia" album. I suppose he created/mastered his music in something else, and pushed it to FL for some reason?

@fatrabbit: I never heard that the sound of Live is inferior to anything else. I suppose my question really was incorrectly focused at Live vs. This or Live vs. That. I guess I should ask: What is your Signal Chain beyond Live? And with Live at the foundation, and a proper, semi-pro chain after it, and with (for the sake of the argument) creativity and skill coming out of your ears, does Live "do the trick"?

The artists I listed are not necessarily my favorite artists (by any stretch). They are artists that I've always admired the production quality of their sound. These artists are all primarily "electronic". I realize there is a lot of instrumentation beyond the DAW that they've incorporated. I was hoping someone on this forum may have shared an understanding of the production abilities of someone like Keith Kennif (Helios) or Jean F. Cochois (Timewriter), whether or not it is their favorite artist. I listed "Bliss" for example because of the quality of their electronic portions of their music. It is quite stunning really. And Royksopp, while certainly not my favorite artist, I've always admired the sound they are able to produce and have been curious as to "how they do it."

I should add that I've been in and around the music and film industry most of my life. I'd like to think that my ears actually already can hear the differences in good and poor production quality without the years of not being able to tell a difference as some of you have said. I appreciate many of yours candor, as I'm sure you receive this question from random Noob's to Live on a weekly basis, but honestly, I'm miles ahead of the average Noob in that regard. I'm merely a Noob to Ableton. I've used Sonar and Cubase in the past and liked them, although, I've always fell short on the hardware or "signal chain" as it is called, that goes from "idea" to "mastered audio".

One of my closest friends is personal friends with an artist named "Sasha", who is a big advocate of Live. While I myself, am not a huge fan of his music, it sparked an interest in me to check out Live. My buddy insists that I should explore music creation with it, and it has been 3 years since I've plugged away on making music. So, that's why I'm here. I've recently gotten the itch again to get musically creative...stop being such a consumer and get some of those ideas out of my head and into other's ears. I suppose that's what brings all of us to this forum. :D

Thanks for your feedback and for reading! 8)

radib
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:11 am

Post by radib » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:24 pm

AnalogBalrog wrote: @Radib... why poke fun at me? :roll:

Fun? You´ll see later. After you finished your running through that corridors of bad hints. Surely the dust brothers only need mics of 90€ cause they do vocals that don´t require anything else.
-


"after all it wouldn´t have been possible without the impossible."

AnalogBalrog
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:34 pm

Post by AnalogBalrog » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:34 pm

Radib... I actually liked your other posts regarding the gap in sound quality. I was talking about when I listed a few artists and you said, "One of the most funniest things I ever read (and believe me: I read a lot of crap)."

Are you saying what I wrote is crap?

Just be nice. It'll getchya farther in life.

radib
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:11 am

Post by radib » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Kid, what is that? Another moral preaching no one needs. I don´t need to get "further" in life, I prefer a banal life to the illusion of "a nice career".

What I wanted to say is that those artist are really ok, but nothing special to realize. Especially not soundwise. Just found your viewpoint funny, don´t take it too personal. Enjoy your soon upcoming experiences with producing, it can be a good thing.
-


"after all it wouldn´t have been possible without the impossible."

Post Reply