ot..... VOTE Republican in November. Protect America

[glu]

Sorry man, but I voted for John Kerry in 2004 for precisely the reasons you listed above, I didn't like him so much but I saw him as the lesser of 2 evils.

I wasted my vote that day and I swear I'll never do it again.

How will we ever break out of this stale, broken, 2 party system if everyone keeps thinking like this? Especially considering the enormous barage of marketing that we are subject to, leading us to believe that there are only 2 canidates to choose from? Come on man... we have options and we need to excercise them.

How are we ever supposed to have real democratic representation if people continue to not vote for the canidate that represents them simply because they think they can not win? That's arguably worse than not voting at all.

No offense, but in my eye's there is not a more clear cut case of vote wasting than not voting your conscience.

Otherwise what are we telling them? "More of the same please"

+1

The other issue to address is the mechanics of voting in the US and the winner takes all electorate. Texas voted 25% Democratic last election while all electorates went to Bush. As a minority voter in that state, my interests were not being represented by the electorate. This is not a representative democracy!

There is no accountability in our voting system, especially when you have corporations like Choicepoint blocking voters, electronic ballots that have been hacked, etc.

It is no surprise to me that the states have low election participation.

[BriGuy]

smutek, I am nodding my head in agreement with so much of what you say. I think so many of us who grew up under Carter, Reagan, Bush and Clinton are waking up to the fact that the 2-party system is no good. Where I am now in the UK the wasted vote excuse is given for not voting for the Liberal Democrats, a true major third-party option.

The main parties will play it safe and we will get more watered-down elitist leaders whose main function is to raise money for the party rather than to govern effectively. They have one eye on the ball and one eye on their wallet and we all get pooched.

I associate so much with your notion about becoming more conservative with age. Agreed - it was so much easier to be a Marxist with a bong in my hands and nothing to lose. And so, Ron Paul may scare people on the far left but, I've got news for you, true liberty and freedom will scare both the far left and the far right in equal measure: those adhering to both ideologies will not want to see control pass back to the people.

BriGuy
http://www.last.fm/music/TimeShapers
http://www.starplex-consulting.co.uk/elemental

[smutek]

....true liberty and freedom will scare both the far left and the far right in equal measure: those adhering to both ideologies will not want to see control pass back to the people.

BriGuy

Well said!

[glu]

An issue I have with democracy is that the majority can and is often wrong

example- 75% of the US supported initial military operations in Iraq. There are thousands of examples I could give but you all get the point.

Is there a better political technology yet to be discovered?

[smutek]

An issue I have with democracy is that the majority can and is often wrong

example- 75% of the US supported initial military operations in Iraq. There are thousands of examples I could give but you all get the point.

Personally I blame a lot of that on media consolidation. And marketing. Whether they are selling us war or a canidate... People simply do not get balanced points of view from the mainstream media. All of the major media outlets are owned by a handful of giant corporations. They give us news to rouse our emotions, not stimulate our intellect. It's more akin to propoganda. Seriously, where do you draw the line between marketing and propoganda?

Know what I mean? I have to be honest, I just chuckle when I hear people refer to "the liberal media". What a myth, there is no such thing in America. That's almost as bad as calling Hillary Clinton as a liberal....

If you want to take a country what is the first thing you take? You take the media. Well, they've taken it. God help us if they take the internet as well.

[djadonis206]

Thanks djadonis but, like your Manson / long-hair exposition, I think it's a case of applying associative properties where they don't exist. I don't see anywhere in the Paul platform where he reciprocates support for Stormfront's brand of ignorant bigotry.

I read their RP thread (whacky, horrible site) and it seems that the racists are also in two minds about Ron Paul. His position on securing the USA's borders obviously appeals to their xenophobia but I think that's about it. If you listen to Ron Paul, he is totally on the side of individual rights, not rights for any special interest group, let alone one based on the color of a person's skin.

The main thing is to look at the platforms and policies and don't get caught up in the Republican / Democrat thing. They are both to blame for the mess the country is in.

BriGuy
http://www.last.fm/music/TimeShapers

good looking out on Ron - I just saw his name splattered all over their website and was "ewww"

my girl says the same thing you do - they support him but he doesn't support them

(or does he)


I saw a great documentary last night on GrannyD on HBO (Run Granny Run)

she really turned me on to the power of what the real people can do and how convoluted and dumb actual politicians are (ignorant to what real people want and need) check it out http://www.hbo.com

or just google GrannyD

anywayz - If I was to vote republican I'd vote for Fred Thompson because I liked his character on Law and Order <---> I'm weird like that

I voted for (the other guy) because I didn't like half the people voting for the other guy

but I generally swing to the left unless there's to many hippies supporting something I want to support, which would make me a hippy, and I'd rather not be a hippy - if you follow that logic

word and peace

"and peace".

hippy. busted.

I have long hair as well

[glu]

An issue I have with democracy is that the majority can and is often wrong

example- 75% of the US supported initial military operations in Iraq. There are thousands of examples I could give but you all get the point.

Personally I blame a lot of that on media consolidation. And marketing. Whether they are selling us war or a canidate... People simply do not get balanced points of view from the mainstream media. All of the major media outlets are owned by a handful of giant corporations. They give us news to rouse our emotions, not stimulate our intellect. It's more akin to propoganda. Seriously, where do you draw the line between marketing and propoganda?

Know what I mean? I have to be honest, I just chuckle when I hear people refer to "the liberal media". What a myth, there is no such thing in America. That's almost as bad as calling Hillary Clinton as a liberal....

If you want to take a country what is the first thing you take? You take the media. Well, they've taken it. God help us if they take the internet as well.

I whole-heartedly agree... + 1 (zillion)

[leedsquietman]

Both parties are shit.

The republicans for dragging the USA into a futile war at the expense of thousands of their soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqis, Afghans and whatever other conflict they insist. And for keeping the there and increasing the casualty rate (Vietnam wasn't enough of a lesson on when enough is enough, obviously) as well as many poor policies regarding health, family, education etc.

the democrats for being weak opposition with a weak leader, no direction and no policies on how to deal with the fallout of the current situation. and they also have no answers to all the social problems either, they know they want to do it differently but don;t really know how.

being a US voter really sucks. and now, no matter who gets in, it will take years of conciliation and avoidance of foreign wars to stem the hatred felt and whoever is in, there will be bombs and terrorist attacks.

[franknputer]

I don't think we've given this point the proper consideration...

http://blogs.salon.com/0001883/images05/Cowgirl.jpg

[glu]

-9 billion dollars a month

a projected total (including interest) 2 trillion total--keeping us safe and the military industrial complex in business--

on CSPAN

[djadonis206]

negative 9 billion dollars a month????

is that possible

the war is only possible

if (theWar) >= 0 dollars a day

otherwise it's discontinuous - so my contract to you glu is to remove the discontinuity

or find the derivative of F(theWar) using

f(a+h) - f(a) / h as theWar goes to 0

thanks

and as they say in Bangladesh

"Ok, now do that."




a

[glu]

hmmm... you are right Adonis, just think of it as an absolute value. I needed to put brackets around it.

Here's some math for ya:

[chrysalis33rpm]

Sure, I'd love to vote for Kucinich or Ron Paul, but you know what - it ain't gonna happen. Don't throw your vote away, George Bush is in power over something like 800 votes (that he didn't even win we all know).

See man, I feel differently.

I feel that if I do not vote for the canidate that best represents my view, regardless of party or "chances of winning" only then I am throwing my vote away.

Say if it comes down to Guliani and Hillary Clinton, with Kucinich and Paul running seperately as independents. I'm a registered Democrat since age 18, now am I supposed to vote for Clinton because I'm afraid Guliani could win if I don't? Or am I supposed to vote for the canidate that represents my views?

Sorry man, but I voted for John Kerry in 2004 for precisely the reasons you listed above, I didn't like him so much but I saw him as the lesser of 2 evils.

I wasted my vote that day and I swear I'll never do it again.

How will we ever break out of this stale, broken, 2 party system if everyone keeps thinking like this? Especially considering the enormous barage of marketing that we are subject to, leading us to believe that there are only 2 canidates to choose from? Come on man... we have options and we need to excercise them.

How are we ever supposed to have real democratic representation if people continue to not vote for the canidate that represents them simply because they think they can not win? That's arguably worse than not voting at all.

No offense, but in my eye's there is not a more clear cut case of vote wasting than not voting your conscience.

Otherwise what are we telling them? "More of the same please"

Yeah, I feel you definitely. To get real democracy we are going to have to have more than 2 candidates.

I am shocked by the idea that if Nader had not run we would not be in Iraq. It's not a question of going against my consience - its a question of being pragmatic enough to shoot at a target that can actually be hit, instead of taking a stand on my principles which won't do anyone any good (highly personal judgement of course- I entirely understand that you would come to another conclusion).

What is amazing is that even after Bush has entirely screwed the pooch, his party still stands a decent chance of being reelected. And is perceived as being stronger in the fight against terror, whatever the fuck that means. (Can somebody remind me what percentage of containers shipped into this country are searched? Rhetorical question, but I believe its less than 1%)

Anyway, I entirely support your general thrust, uhhh politically that is, I just come to a different conclusion about voting.

[gomi]

politics are stupid







so is religion.

[Tone Deft]

politics are stupid







so is religion.

and when the two are combined you get the ultimate elixir to control the masses. aren't politics a necessary evil?

I have to invoke John Lennon's 'Imagine' at this point, poignant.