Live7 b -Slicing with warp markers SUCKS - true or false?

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:19 pm

Bump,
Curious what the latest wave of beta testers think...

scientist · Post by **scientist** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:59 am

i think slice using warp markers is fine. if you double up by having clips with warp markers AND clip markers, its not really that much different than duplicating the clip and adjusting warp markers on the copy. unless of course people bring up some good arguments as to why one clip would need both warp and slice markers.

and i don't understand the timing/pitch problem from your original post. i haven't run across this problem. i'll give it some time tonight if i can get the beta 10 to f'in download without stalling.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:40 am

I haven't been slicing to warp markers so I can't really say. as a n00bish mpc user and am used to telling the software the number of slices and adjusting from there. I really like the Auto Select button but would like to see it available under all the views, not just when the chain list is viewable.

from there I hit a slice, the simpler pops up, I adjust the start/end to get a clean slice and move on. sometimes I expand a slice 2-4 wider, sometimes I delete it. sometimes I move them all to white keys.

I really wish the simpler view didn't expand to the whole sample. IOW I can slice a break from a toon, hit the key for it, auto select brings up the simpler, I zoom in on the selection, adjust the start/end points, tweak other slices, then go back to the first one and it's zoomed all the way out again. AHHH!!! WHY!??!???!?!??!

scientist · Post by **scientist** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:52 am

Tone Deft wrote:I really wish the simpler view didn't expand to the whole sample. IOW I can slice a break from a toon, hit the key for it, auto select brings up the simpler, I zoom in on the selection, adjust the start/end points, tweak other slices, then go back to the first one and it's zoomed all the way out again. AHHH!!! WHY!??!???!?!??!

good point...feature request time.

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:32 am

well i just prepared the warp markers for over 500 breaks ready for slicing, and i think it works quite well.

the only thing i think really needs adding is an option for warp marker resolution / timing. at the moment its all 4/4, which when slicing heavily swung jazz in 3/4 isnt easy.

i think the warp markers should

A: reflect the time signature
B: allow you to choose triplets.
C: allow you to add resolution where you need it

but apart from that its fine.

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:01 am

actually, if you change the time signature then right click the sample and 'warp as X-bar loop' it will use the time signature.

thats nice.

Mr-Bit · Post by **Mr-Bit** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:46 am

What no!

One of the main reasons for me to use a slicer (recycle) is to xtract a midi groove,this thread suggests that defining the slice points with warp marker converts the groove to a staight timing?
With no groove quantize this would be a big letdown please tell me I'm wrong.

Now installing 7 to try

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:56 am

Mr-Bit wrote:What no!

One of the main reasons for me to use a slicer (recycle) is to xtract a midi groove,this thread suggests that defining the slice points with warp marker converts the groove to a staight timing?
With no groove quantize this would be a big letdown please tell me I'm wrong.

Now installing 7 to try

Try first, agonize later

It does keep the groove.

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:12 am

Kontakt 3's slicing management is off the hook.

R.J.Dubya · Post by **R.J.Dubya** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:12 pm

peeddrroo wrote:Kontakt 3's slicing management is off the hook.

Seems like it's finally catching up to intakt/phatmatik pro.

The ideal way to slice has been around for years. Phatmatik pro and intakt both had it nailed (actualy reaktor slicers too), and any other way just seems like a hassle once you've used those.

Kontakt's slicing has sucked so far. Looks like kontakt 3 may just have the intakt method finally nailed though.

What I always wanted out of a slicer though was drag and drop from the DAW. Rather than having to go through some in-built browser. That's what I like about Live having a slicer. However Live's solution looks nowhere near as fast as intakt/phatmatik. For example, the standard way I would slice with those would be: Load loop, adjust transient sensitivity until approximately the right amount of slices are present judging by the wave form. Now click on a section of the waveform and it plays that slice. Adjust markers or add/delete as necessary. Drag midi to host. It's very quick. It's seems to me that Live's way will be a little more cumbersome for complicated loops, given that each slice is in a separate device so you have to keep switching devices (giving rise to problems such as TD described with zooming changes). And on the other slicers, you see the timeline scroll through the loop as it plays so you know where to go immediately to fix something that sounds wrong. I can't imagine that being as easy with Racks trying to find the one that's a bit off if there is no visual feedback of the play position. I really shouldn't be speaking until I try the demo though, but hese are just things that I don't see how could be dealt with in a slick way with the drum rack method. Still looking forward to trying it though.

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:02 pm

i agree there is a lot of room for improvement, but its a reasonable start.

what you can do is generate all your slices in one sampler instance, rather than a rack, but that introduces other limitations. of course if sampler had multiple outputs it wouldnt be so limiting...

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:43 pm

hoffman2k wrote: My preffered method would be using "Locators" that can be triggered independently. Like on the arrangement side. At least that would give you the ability to preview a single slice.
But if you look back into the feature wishlist, you'll notice that this has been requested for many other things such as dj'ing for example.
Thats where the problem lies. Even though we consider some things to be half-assed, the reality is that we don't have any clue what Ableton considers as a solution or as a temp solution.

Hear hear!

I hope you bring this with you around, seeing you so much here Hoffman! Its so clearly that this is the way to go! As dj, slicer, looper, whatever abletoner. Keep repeating and they might do it at some point!

simon803 · Post by **simon803** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:54 pm

if you're warping a sample of a full track and want to avoid ugly audio warping you HAVE to use complex mode. you'll get a varying degree of ugliness on all other settings, especially beats.
I experimented with this feature for the first time this morning. as stated above you can zoom in on the sample once they're loaded into the drum rack and move the start/end points to get everything as you need it.

shapshankly · Post by **shapshankly** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:39 pm

there are pros and cons to this implementation that's for sure. i don't like how you have to create a new rack for each loop that's to be sliced, and i've still not quite got my head around the way that the midi timing is kept true (a la recycle etc.) but what i will say is that the rack is brilliant.

the fact that you have an individual simpler/sampler for each slice and correspondingly an individual effects chain is brilliant. It's elegant and smart and quick to get sounds going bosh!

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:59 am

Warp mode doesn't really have anything to do with slicing though.