[OT] Ron Paul - fuck yeah!

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glu
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Post by glu » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:49 pm

ethios4 wrote: I certainly don't hear any other candidate breaking it down the way he does. Not evern remotely freaking close.
+1

In the other recent discussion we had, I didn't really go into why I like this guy, mainly to not deviate the points I was trying to make. But I must say that he resonates with my beliefs a hell of a lot more than any other candidate.

I don't really think he stands a chance to win the nomination, but stranger things have happened. What I think he needs to drastically alter is simple- the guy talks in a patronizing way, as if he is speaking to his stupid step son who fucked up the dishwasher or something... I understand that it is his passion for the subject that poorly translates into his tone, but it has to change or he will put people off. I just don't want his message to be masked by how he sends it.
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OvertoneZero
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Post by OvertoneZero » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:51 pm

ethios4 wrote:Anyone know if the party HAS to pick the candidate that wins the Primary?
Each party votes in a primary election for the candidate that will represent the party in the general election, i.e., Democrats vote in the Democratic primary for the Democratic presidential candidate and Republicans vote in the Republican primary for the Republican presidential candidate.

Ron Paul is a Libertarian. He wants to put much of the legislative power back into the hands of the states and de-centralize some major aspects of the Federal government. He is essentially economically conservative and socially liberal. He is an isolationist in terms of foreign policy but frankly that would be a lot better than what's happening now and at least he is clear-cut about his stance on issues. His platform is concrete, well-defined, and he has a proven record of sticking to his principles. My main sticking point with him is his apparently laissez-faire attitude toward environmental / emisssions responsibility, which is probably the most critical long-term issue facing humanity.

Ron Paul has many qualities that appeal to me, but the unfortunate truth of politics in America is that the mainstream will never consider him a viable candidate because he does not have the level of media and establishment support of the candidates that have been deemed the front-runners. I wish that an alternative candidate like Ron was viable; I think that it could be a very good thing for the USA.

Having said that, I think Hillary is probably the best bet in 2008 but I'm not looking forward to all of the extra entitlement spending. But, hopefully she will at least end the war and do something to promote environmental responsibility and accountability. Whoever the next prez is, they've certainly got their work cut out for them, as our economy and moral compass lie in shambles.

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Post by Angstrom » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:16 pm

it used to be the case here in the Uk that the Conservative party would be in power and a nasty depression would hit the economy, growth would slow , fat cats would depart. The conservatives would borrow heavily and a large national debt would amass.

Then in the economic depression that followed Labour would come into power, increase taxes to cover the debt and begin digging the country out of collapse. When this was nearly complete the fat cats would return , and conservative would be voted in again just in time to ride the roller coaster all the way to the bottom... again.

This doesn't really happen any more as both parties are equivalent on everything and can only argue about who came up with their policies first.

I think that happens with the US still.
Obviously your economy is looking a bit unwell right now and if Democrats come in they will have to upset a lot of people to try and put it all right. If / when it all looks financially rosy again the republicans will be voted back in for a bit more raping.

OvertoneZero
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Post by OvertoneZero » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:30 pm

There may some truth to that observation of cyclic boom and bust, however, specifically in terms of 2008, I don't see economic recovery or fiscal responsibility as being major concerns of the leading candidates of either party. Perhaps this will change once the nominee reaches office, but for now it seems like they're all mostly in vote-pandering fantasyland mode, waffling on basically everything important and committing to virtually nothing, intent on courting the 'middle' so to speak.

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:33 pm

OvertoneZero wrote:My main sticking point with him is his apparently laissez-faire attitude toward environmental / emisssions responsibility, which is probably the most critical long-term issue facing humanity.
Again, his environmental stance makes a lot of sense to me. He is very very pro-property rights...to the extent that environmental issues are property rights issues in his mind. Meaning that a company or individual has absolutely no right to pollute the ground, water, and air which we all share. So, to me, his environmental stance has a strong legal and Constitutional basis which I find lacking in strictly moral arguments concerning environmental issues.

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:44 pm

glu, your points about RP's unfettered trade ideas are the most difficult for me to get around so far. I just don't know enough about how that stuff works yet to really say, and it may get into issues about which economic model works best, and for whom - issues about which I know even less... :oops:

I recognize that Ron Paul is a long-shot, although I feel it's for all the wrong reasons. He makes a good focal point for discussions about a lot of issues... you can talk about Ron Paul, who is a real guy with lots of support, and at the same time be bringing up Federal Reserve, war, Constitution, rights, etc, without it being abstract concepts as much. And its fun to drive around with this:
Image :D

OvertoneZero
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Post by OvertoneZero » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:58 pm

ethios4 wrote: Again, his environmental stance makes a lot of sense to me. He is very very pro-property rights...to the extent that environmental issues are property rights issues in his mind. Meaning that a company or individual has absolutely no right to pollute the ground, water, and air which we all share. So, to me, his environmental stance has a strong legal and Constitutional basis which I find lacking in strictly moral arguments concerning environmental issues.
As long as his approach is effective, it's fine by me. We need to drastically cut carbon emission on a global scale, and we need to do it yesterday. Unless you want to live in Siberia and / or die of Ebola.


In other news,

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=15807245


Unfortunately I think the US is going to be paying a hefty price in the near future... except of course for the very rich, they'll be fine. :roll:

john gordon
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Post by john gordon » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:25 pm

rastafarii fe life.

yourmom
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Post by yourmom » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:58 pm

if my state law stated that one can only vote within their party in the primaries i would switch party affiliations. but since i am in the state of tennessee i don't have to do that. it changes state to state.

http://www.primarilypaul.com/ron-paul-in-the-primaries/

jmouse
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Post by jmouse » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:19 am

Da-Do-Ron-Ron-Ron
Da-Do- Ron-Ron!!


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mike holiday
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Post by mike holiday » Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:40 am

but


HE IS A PRO-LIFE'r



and believes Roe Vs. Wade should be overturned
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mike holiday
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Post by mike holiday » Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:44 am

convince me how i could vote for that and i'd vote for him


my mom and dad are pro-life republicans and.. when my 17 - yr old sis got pregnant, i'll let ya guess what happened..


it's to easy for people to take that stance when they don't know the situation

plus our planet is so over populated i'd be willing to bet abortions save more lives then they take in the long run

not to mention all the real reasons we allow them for in the first place!!
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yourmom
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Post by yourmom » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:22 am

ron paul is for states rights. he wants to overturn roe vs wade because it is simply the federal govt telling people what they can and cannot do. none of their business. yes he is pro life.. but he, as president, knows that he has no right to impose his opinion on others.. it is a state issue.

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Abortion.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ ... l#Abortion

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:26 am

mike holiday wrote:abortion stuff
tricky issue.

abortions will happen whether they're legal or not. question is whether or not they'll be done safely or not. there's also the possiblity for counseling to help the woman in question regardless of her decision.

then there's the pro-life/pro death penalty crowd, talk about confused folks!!
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jamester
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Post by jamester » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:32 am

The "state's rights" thing goes both ways, both good and potentially dangerous. Personally, I think it's ok for the Feds to say, mandate that we give equal rights to blacks as well as whites. And I think it's good that the same apply to a woman's right to abortion. Do we feel the same way about a state's autonomous right to allow (or disallow) gay marriage as we would about inter-racial marriage?

There is a need for consistency as well as state's autonomy, I believe.
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