[OT] Ron Paul - fuck yeah!

[Tone Deft]

but gay rights are something people would enjoy for months or years. people would move to a state to be where they could marry or not be around that if they choose. a woman in Kansas would fly to CA to get an abortion and fly back. a gay couple in Kansas would move to CA to live for quite some time. the social and economic effects extend much further.

[OvertoneZero]

I'm really not all that into government mandates myself but I see banning abortion as a mandate, funny how that works..

[Machinesworking]

ron paul is for states rights. he wants to overturn roe vs wade because it is simply the federal govt telling people what they can and cannot do.

Jesus, that makes ZERO sense? A law that ALLOWS individual rights, and abortion is an individual right, does not, and cannot be seen as impinging on another's rights. This is even less of a case of freedom of choice than alcohol, which can and does affect people driving cars, which in turn kill people besides the drunk driver every year.
The question is and has always been whether or not a woman's body and the unborn fetus that is intrinsically a part of her, is hers to do with as she wishes. So in this case Ron Paul is very much anti freedom, allowing the majority in a state to control the rights of the individuals freedom.

You people are being fooled by him, he's a nutcase with a few good ideas, not unlike Perot.

[beats me]

I've got the abortion thing already worked out. I'm all for mandatory temporary tube tying and sterilization at birth. Once you can prove emotional, mental, and economic stability and responsibility you can file to have the procedure reversed. I don't care if that sounds like some harsh ass communist China sounding shit. It's the right thing to do. I don't even want to go into a history of fucked up evil people who were brought into this world from parents who had no business having kids.

[Homebelly]

ron paul is for states rights. he wants to overturn roe vs wade because it is simply the federal govt telling people what they can and cannot do.

Jesus, that makes ZERO sense? A law that ALLOWS individual rights, and abortion is an individual right, does not, and cannot be seen as impinging on another's rights. This is even less of a case of freedom of choice than alcohol, which can and does affect people driving cars, which in turn kill people besides the drunk driver every year.
The question is and has always been whether or not a woman's body and the unborn fetus that is intrinsically a part of her, is hers to do with as she wishes. So in this case Ron Paul is very much anti freedom, allowing the majority in a state to control the rights of the individuals freedom.

You people are being fooled by him, he's a nutcase with a few good ideas, not unlike Perot.

As far as i can tell from what i have read about RP,on a personal level he is Pro-life and Pro-choice.
But, however he stands on contentious issues personally, politically he feels it is nobodies business what any one of us wants to do, just as long as we take responsibility for the consequences. This is at the core of Libertarian ideology.
It assumes we are all responsible to a degree, and that the extent of this degree is defined by the community. It is a philosophy that assumes the Fedral government should be more concerned with how the country as a whole is being run and less concerned with how it can control an individuals liberty, it is also about that government being run as leanly as possible, that it demands as low a tax across the board as possible and doesn't interfere with how any individual conducts their life as long as how they conduct their life doesn't infringe upon another persons ability to do the same.

[Tone Deft]

mandatory temporary tube tying and sterilization at birth.

you have my vote!

you need a license to catch a fish but any asshole can have a kid.

[ethios4]

A law that ALLOWS individual rights, and abortion is an individual right, does not, and cannot be seen as impinging on another's rights.

Well, in his and millions of other American's minds, the unborn fetus is another person who also has rights. The fact that you disagree strongly does not necessarily mean you are right. Ron Paul at least recognizes that this is not an open/shut case, whatever his strong personal feelings might be, and this is why he supports it being a states-rights issue.

And yes, this means people will go to states where it is legal and live there or get abortions...just like if pot was a states-rights issue, many people would move to states where pot was legal or illegal, depending. That's why the states are called United...because they are united in spite of their differences.

The fact that anyone would support a war-mongerer over a pro-lifer is interesting...

[forge]

I've got the abortion thing already worked out. I'm all for mandatory temporary tube tying and sterilization at birth. Once you can prove emotional, mental, and economic stability and responsibility you can file to have the procedure reversed. I don't care if that sounds like some harsh ass communist China sounding shit. It's the right thing to do. I don't even want to go into a history of fucked up evil people who were brought into this world from parents who had no business having kids.

and what if Dubbaya or some other freak was the one deciding who gets the chop??

[Machinesworking]

Well, in his and millions of other American's minds, the unborn fetus is another person who also has rights.

I will never understand the religious zealots that think a 3-5 week old fetus that basically looks like a fertilized egg is a "person"... It's irrational, but hey, Ron paul is also rabidly anti illegal alien, which is just the reverse problem of the president we have now.
People are not opening their eyes to this, he's not, and never will be for the environment, individual rights over corporate rights, or freedom of choice, and his immigration rhetoric is close enough in line with the white supremacist movement to have their vote. But hey, he's not GWB, but believe me, he would be a whole new set of problems when it came to world affairs.

[forge]

Well, in his and millions of other American's minds, the unborn fetus is another person who also has rights.

I will never understand the religious zealots that think a 3-5 week old fetus that basically looks like a fertilized egg is a "person"... It's irrational, :

Yeah I find that incredible

but then I also find it incredible that the nutcases were allowed to get "creationism" into classrooms

people should have the right to cuckoo beliefs in their own time, but they should not be allowed to brainwash kids with it in public schools

[chrysalis33rpm]

I've got the abortion thing already worked out. I'm all for mandatory temporary tube tying and sterilization at birth. Once you can prove emotional, mental, and economic stability and responsibility you can file to have the procedure reversed. I don't care if that sounds like some harsh ass communist China sounding shit. It's the right thing to do. I don't even want to go into a history of fucked up evil people who were brought into this world from parents who had no business having kids.

My grandpa has always said that there should be something in the water supply that sterilizes people until they apply for an antidote.

[OvertoneZero]

Hillary doing her thing...

http://digg.com/politics/The_Politico_O ... mbs_debate





Why do all of the options always seem to suck?

Puppet on the left - puppet on the right - emigrate (not that emigrating would be so bad once it was over and done with but man, what a hassle)

[dm_hawk]

he is implying that Ron Paul won't get the nomination, you can only vote in the primary for the party you are registered as.

Exactly.

Switch affiliations!

Well I thought of becoming an Independent, but I dunno...

Just before voting in the Washington primary in 2000, I registered as a Republican in order to vote for John McCain (i.e. against Bush). Then I voted for Gore (along with the majority ) in the national election. Many progressive activists did this at the time.

[mike holiday]

Why do all of the options always seem to suck?

now thats the truth

[smutek]

.....he's not, and never will be for....individual rights over corporate rights........

I'm Pro Choice, but have no problem with the issue being decided on State Level. What you mention above is my one primary hang up with the man, and it's a really big one for me. I really like him, but I need more answers on this, because quite frankly big business scares me as much as, if not more than big government does.

I don't know enough about him to come out and say "he is for corporations over individuals" but when I listen to his ideas everything sounds really good, except the one question that keeps coming to my mind over and over again - with a weak federal government who is going to keep an eye on big business?

Yea, that is a huge issue for me.