[OT] Ron Paul - fuck yeah!

[smartass303]

Just dont vote...
The last both elections at yours place would have fucked me up soooo bad...
I just wuld never vote again.

Im glad im livin in the old world (not that it is any better here),

303

[ethios4]

Well, in his and millions of other American's minds, the unborn fetus is another person who also has rights.

I will never understand the religious zealots that think a 3-5 week old fetus that basically looks like a fertilized egg is a "person"...

Well, that's my point. You may not understand their position, but you can't prove yours and they can't prove theirs, so it's opinion...very very intense opinion. Makes sense to me that something that illicits such a strong reaction, and yet is so open to dispute, would be handled at a more local level. To me, the wise thing to do is get a vasectomy and solve the whole fucking problem....thats why I'm getting one in a few weeks. But then I guess most people would rather have kids or abortions....

[smutek]

.....he's not, and never will be for....individual rights over corporate rights........

I'm Pro Choice, but have no problem with the issue being decided on State Level. What you mention above is my one primary hang up with the man, and it's a really big one for me. I really like him, but I need more answers on this, because quite frankly big business scares me as much as, if not more than big government does.

I don't know enough about him to come out and say "he is for corporations over individuals" but when I listen to his ideas everything sounds really good, except the one question that keeps coming to my mind over and over again - with a weak federal government who is going to keep an eye on big business?

Yea, that is a huge issue for me.

Speaking of big business, check this out. It has to do with a proposal to expand media consolidation. Have not researched further, but just picked this up on DemocracyNow!

I believe media consolidation is one of the biggest threats facing our democracy, how are people supposed to make informed decisions if a handful of companies control all of the media outlets? And now they are moving to control more?

This is relevant to this thread for me, because I want to know if this is the type of shit we can expect with a small Federal Government as proposed by Ron Paul? Like I said, I like the guy but this is a huge issue in my opinion, and I don;t know where he stands on it or how he proposes to protect Americans from corporate greed if he is proposing smaller federal government and thus less Federal regulation.

Story synopsis Below

_____________________________________

Federal Communications Commission Chair Kevin Martin has proposed to do away with a rule that bars companies from owning both a newspaper and a television or radio station in the same city. In 2003, Martin voted with the then-FCC chairman Michael Powell to lift the same media ownership rules, but the effort was overturned by the landmark Prometheus v. FCC decision. As public hearings continue, we speak to dissident FCC Commissioners Michael Copps and Jonathan Adelstein.

_____________________________________

Listen to the story and interviews with 2 FCC commissioners who oppose this move on DemocracyNow!

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl? ... 01/1344254

[hoffman2k]

Funny how "pro life" or "pro choice" is just another way to divide Americans.

Pro choice/life, Red and Blue states, legal aliens and illegal aliens, yanks and confederates,...

In the 90's, the king of Belgium legalized abortion and that was the end of it.
Now we can focus on more important things like splitting up the whole damn country because French and Dutch politicians don't get along.

Funny how even the smallest minority in Belgium has more political parties then a whole continent as the states has.
You think you have a choice but if you recall last election.. the choice was between a silver-spooner and a.... silver-spooner.

Here in Denmark they got a funny thing going on. As i understand it, the party in power can call elections anytime they feel like it. And since they're scoring high in the polls, they're holding elections now. Democracy in action

[OvertoneZero]

You think you have a choice but if you recall last election.. the choice was between a silver-spooner and a.... silver-spooner.

Yeah, our 'democracy' is flawed, I don't think many Americans feel they have much choice. On a deeper level though, I'm not sure that the idea of a democractic government itself isn't flawed to begin with.. unless you define morality as 'the will of the majority'.

[Angstrom]

You think you have a choice but if you recall last election.. the choice was between a silver-spooner and a.... silver-spooner.

Yeah, our 'democracy' is flawed, I don't think many Americans feel they have much choice. On a deeper level though, I'm not sure that the idea of a democractic government itself isn't flawed to begin with.. unless you define morality as 'the will of the majority'.

Indeed.

The will of the majority is not something I want by behaviour limited by.
The general population of the world are superstitious un-educated buffoons one step up from a chimp.
And it's a small step.

I'm not exactly a perfect being, but when I look at the morons wandering the streets outside looking for someone to stab and get famous, I don't really want them to vote on my future.

[forge]

You think you have a choice but if you recall last election.. the choice was between a silver-spooner and a.... silver-spooner.

Yeah, our 'democracy' is flawed, I don't think many Americans feel they have much choice. On a deeper level though, I'm not sure that the idea of a democractic government itself isn't flawed to begin with.. unless you define morality as 'the will of the majority'.

Indeed.

The will of the majority is not something I want by behaviour limited by.
The general population of the world are superstitious un-educated buffoons one step up from a chimp.
And it's a small step.

I'm not exactly a perfect being, but when I look at the morons wandering the streets outside looking for someone to stab and get famous, I don't really want them to vote on my future.

+11111111111
but whaddaya gunna do?

[ethios4]

Yeah, our 'democracy' is flawed, I don't think many Americans feel they have much choice. On a deeper level though, I'm not sure that the idea of a democractic government itself isn't flawed to begin with.. unless you define morality as 'the will of the majority'.

I think this is a major misunderstanding most Americans have, probably because of the way we are taught democracy. USA is not a true democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic - which means we elect people to govern us based on the rules set forth in the Constitution. The idea was never to rule by the 'will of the majority', but to elect the people we feel will represent us, and will interpret the Constitution correctly and make, enforce, and judge laws accordingly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic

[Angstrom]

Yeah, our 'democracy' is flawed, I don't think many Americans feel they have much choice. On a deeper level though, I'm not sure that the idea of a democractic government itself isn't flawed to begin with.. unless you define morality as 'the will of the majority'.

I think this is a major misunderstanding most Americans have, probably because of the way we are taught democracy. USA is not a true democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic - which means we elect people to govern us based on the rules set forth in the Constitution. The idea was never to rule by the 'will of the majority', but to elect the people we feel will represent us, and will interpret the Constitution correctly and make, enforce, and judge laws accordingly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic

Indeed, and it's worth mentioning Plato's Republic in this context, as it is held to be the origin of a lot of this stuff. Most governmental types hold it very dear and are tought it as gospel.

If you have the stomach for a bit of ancient Greek philosophy and political theory it's worth a read to make your own mind up.
I thought it was absolute bollocks myself. The logic is flawed to say the least, he builds a tower of cards where each step is built on the preceding ludicrous assumption.

Such as "dogs are the guardians of humans, dogs have an innate sense of justice because they know that a stranger should be barked at, but not a friend - therefore the guardians of men in political life should be like dogs"

yes, Plato, that's right - dogs never befriend bad people.

Also he uses Socrates as the narrator, putting words in the mouth of a man that the Greeks had recently killed for spurious reasons and now felt very guilty about doing so. Socrates was revered, so Plato puts his ideas in the mouth of Socrates


Hey Plato,
Jesus said "I disagree with your ideas, Me, that's Jesus - say that the concept of moral guardians chosen from the elite is fatally flawed"

so that's that sorted.

[glu]

I think we are more like a corporate democracy, inc.

[Tone Deft]

I think we are more like a corporate democracy, inc.

Jesus Inc LLC.

[glu]

The general population of the world are superstitious un-educated buffoons one step up from a chimp.
And it's a small step.

This is actually very ethnocentric, I hope I am taking it out of context.

[Angstrom]

The general population of the world are superstitious un-educated buffoons one step up from a chimp.
And it's a small step.

This is actually very ethnocentric, I hope I am taking it out of context.

that's a bizarre interpretation/point of view.

no I consider all ethnicities equality idiotic.
If you can point me in the direction of the non-idiotic master race I would be amazed.

I'm not sure why you consider my statement to be ethnically odd. Chimps don't have any ethnicity do they?
My phrase doesn't imply any kind of ethnic bias as far as I can tell, 'general' is like, everyone - 'population' (likewise), superstitious and un-educated (I used to work in schools in Liverpool ... the terrible tales I could tell)

Perhaps I am too influenced by Desmond Morris in my interpretations of what goes on, but I'm pretty sure that most of the population of this planet are still playing primate territory games, on many scales.

[jamester]

The general population of the world are superstitious un-educated buffoons one step up from a chimp.
And it's a small step.

This is actually very ethnocentric, I hope I am taking it out of context.

Actually, I quite agree with Angstrom. I don't see how it's ethnocentric at all; on the contrary, human stupidity, greed and herd-following mentality - along with the violent expressions born out of jealousy and fear of the unknown - are a universal across this planet, transcending race, class, culture, creed etc.

We humans are all very much the same (unfortunately)...

[smutek]

I didn't take it to be ethnocentric either, especially considering Angstrom did not apply his statement to any ethnic group.

Speciocentric perhaps? Is that a word or did we just invent it? We can start our own movement:

END SPECIOCENTRICITY NOW!!!

Seriously though, here in America people of color are often referred to as "chimps" by white people with racist inclinations. Perhaps glu unconsciously made that association? Not implying that glu is racist - obviously not or he would not have made the statement - but maybe that is how he took the statement. It's easy to get sensitive about that stuff when living in such a racist culture.

Don't know.