Will you be ditching Logic or Cubase for L4?

tjwett · Post by **tjwett** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:50 am

sold Logic last week. will be Live 4 only now. i've been using L4 beta and haven't missed Logic yet. good riddance i say.

dr_dohh · Post by **dr_dohh** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:41 am

never even had cubase or logic so i don't know what im missing. but since live now has midi and effects, and since im getting a nice dsp card, can't see anything i need from daws that i wont get from live.

claudek · Post by **claudek** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:13 am

I like Reaktor allot and find it works strange inside of Logic. Many times, I would get these out of sync problem alert messages that would drive me nuts..or sample rate errors..
Also when Rewired to Reason, Au's would not work in a cycle mode.They would just stop..Mainly from bar 1..
I had contacted Emagic numerous times on this , but never seemed to be fixed to date. So far in Live, none of these problems.!! I also like the way Ableton work together with us and our needs.
Thanks

gdx · Post by **gdx** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:51 am

claudek wrote: "I had contacted Emagic numerous times on this , but never seemed to be fixed to date. "

---> some months ag my emaigic xs-key stopped working for no reason ("key not authorzied" errormessage) - i couldnt do anything, all registrated plugin instruments were gone. had to stop woring on a remix that shouldhave been delivered on time. of course i contacted emagic - i took more than a week for them to answer my email, and it took nearly one month for them to replace my broken xs-key..not exactly what i call "customer friendly", right?

claudek · Post by **claudek** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:56 am

It seems after the Apple takeover things have changed a bit over there..
I would think by now Logic 7 should have been out..but this "Logic Pro" was offered..I never seen anything different in this but a nice bundle of aswesome plugs at a great price..I never quite understood this Logic Pro thing..I mean was Logic Platinum not Pro?
.It just seems they just got lazy or something..I mean that EXS24 is looking like a S900 now..It is cool but so dated in its' interface..Now Live 4 is fresh and I can see why as they work hard over at Ableton.
Just my 2 cents

mthomashow · Post by **mthomashow** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:14 am

I am new to digital audio recording, having started with LIVE 3 in January and picked up LOGIC PRO in March. But as a 54 year old, I've been around music for quite awhile. I don't understand why people spend so much time declaring allegiance to one program or another. They are both great programs! Yes, LIVE is easier and quicker to use, but LOGIC offers some great features, like score editing, and a terrific suite of plug-ins. Even though I am well equipped with synths (Yamaha S90, Korg Karma, Planet Earth, and Reaktor Sessions), I think the EVP 88 and the EVD 6 are unsurpassed. I have my autoload set-up so I can instantly move between half a dozen of LOGIC PRO's soft synths. WIth one keystroke you record them. With another keystroke you loop them. What can be easier than that? Many of LOGIC's features are complicated but you don't have to use what you don't need. Let's wait, too, and see what LOGIC 7 looks like. Of course, LIVE 4 is phenomenal! It has a freshness, alacrity, and vitality about it.

I don't know...some days I like using LIVE, and other days I like using LOGIC. It depends what I want to accomplish.

Becoming a power user of either takes times and effort. I only use a fraction of both of their capacities. You learn the complexities as you need them...and then the music will always come first.

Speaking as a beginner, I use the basic features of both programs happily.

It seems to me that they are great together, there is no need to ditch one for the other, but rather to conceive them as mutually supportive tools.

No question though, that LIVE 4 is an amazing program!

wildcon · Post by **wildcon** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:12 pm

I have to say that I find using Cubase (SX2) as easy and intuitive as using Live.

Cubase takes more effort initially, but if you take time to set up key commands and shortcuts etc, you can fairly bomb along.
The depth of control (espsecially midi) in Cubase makes it my main sequencer package.

There are elements of live that are fantastic the ability to assign any key to a midi function instantly is awesome and a real pain in Cubase (if at all possible with some controllers).

I'm eagerly awaiting Version 4 with midi VSTi implementation. I will probably use Live a lot more then. Until then I will still mainly use Cubase.

I do have to say that Live is without a doubt the most fun I've had with a music program.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:27 pm

Sonar wasn't mentioned but I'll interpolate.

I have no intention of dropping Sonar. Live 4 will be an important tool for me largely because its strong and weak points mesh fairly neatly with those of Sonar. Where one program doesn't handle something so well, the other can usually pick up the slack.

Fancy signal routing? I'll use Sonar more often than Live. Rewire? Live wins hands down. Complex orchestral and over-the-top prog rock excesses? Sonar, definitely. Dance music featuring loops and VSTis? Live seems the better choice to me. In many instances either program's built-in functionality will do the job, and the decision will come down to "which hosts the plug-ins I need to use?"

With version 4 Live is moving in on Sonar's territory, but the two can still play quite nicely together. If this were a game of Civilization III, I'd advise both countries -- I mean manufacturers -- to build up their borderland cities with monumental cultural works that will impress their own citizens and those of the rival civilization. ;-) Plus radar towers just in case.

Meffy

loophead · Post by **loophead** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:57 pm

Quite happily dumping everything else (numerology until I see an Arp) !

It is funny these discussions where people say they don't like an application but they'll keep it because it lets them do some silly thing. I don't think any of the dinosaurs can do anything I can not do in L4. Maybe they can do something slicker or quicker but thats just years of relearning how to think throught their rats maze they've built around our creative and professional lives.

So I'm happy to find my way around Live to find the work arounds... Surround in Live is a bitch, but I'd rather that bitch then DP4's entire bitch. The less said about Logic the better as there is very little good to say... If you like Space designer look at Altiverb or better yet Waves, forget the number A1 (?) convolution which are about the same thing (about) !?!

Those apps are like a guitar which makes you unlock certain frets before it lets you pickup the instrument. After you define the neck it quizzes you on pick velocity and angular momentum. After that they make you think in esperanto instead of your native toung. Then when you are about to have a creative moment they pull you offline for some 'real' non-real time processing. The fact that they grew organically over years is their reason but not their excuse.

Send em home packing. Thanks but no thanks. They offer me nothing I can't get here. Aside from little things like a good Arp etc. et.al. No need no desire no money from me to support thier unmusical unfriendly unlogical unperformer-like ways. They make obsolete wares and they are now obsolete.

The king is dead long live the king...

MarkH · Post by **MarkH** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:31 pm

dr_dohh wrote:but since live now has midi and effects, and since im getting a nice dsp card, can't see anything i need from daws that i wont get from live.

Using a DSP card in Live without built in delay compensation is not fun. Maybe I'm missing something, but as far as I know Live does not support UAD or Powercore (delay compensation) natively and you must use their respective included plugins which is an absolute pain in the butt.

dr_dohh · Post by **dr_dohh** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:52 am

thanks for the heads up! i wasn't even aware of the issue. if live doesn't have delay compensation for every thing, cant i just make a template that has a delay compensation plugin for every channel? also, won't it work as a send?

MarkH wrote:
dr_dohh wrote:but since live now has midi and effects, and since im getting a nice dsp card, can't see anything i need from daws that i wont get from live.
Using a DSP card in Live without built in delay compensation is not fun. Maybe I'm missing something, but as far as I know Live does not support UAD or Powercore (delay compensation) natively and you must use their respective included plugins which is an absolute pain in the butt.

Komplex · Post by **Komplex** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:14 am

On second thought, the linear interface of Cubase gives me the shits

I'm hoping to ditch all these programs for live 4 when its released, and stable.

davidharrow · Post by **davidharrow** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:12 am

i have to join in , i cant help it

i had used both cubase and logic for years
( i started off with the full roland range about 1982!)
but i have to say my protools HD3 rig with all of LIVES channels
bussed to individual protools channels at 48/96 sound just incredible
i keep waves L2 limiters and oxford eqs on every channel
the only thing i cant do that would make my life complete is to be
able to open reason inside live INSIDE protools
i love the live/reason combo for its speed in creation
cant say i miss logic or cubae AT ALL!

paradiddle · Post by **paradiddle** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:46 am

I mean that EXS24 is looking like a S900 now..It is cool but so dated in its' interface..

Sorry but I have to disagree with you on that point. It is definitely not dated. I use the exs24 mkII all the time. The mkII is semi-modular, has sidechaining, multiple-out, easy integration with the onboard sample editor. It also loads recycle files and sends the midi right away in the arrangement. What is so dated about that?

Not trying to be an arse but most of the time people who diss logic really don't know how it works. They fiddled with it a little but that's all. I'll agree that it isn't a first time app for anybody who starts out in the digital audio cuz it can be quite overwhelming but it is definitely not crappy or a dated software. Proof is that a lot of people are using it professionally and successfully.

But Live is definitely more user friendly and has unique features that logic doesn't have. I plan on getting live 4 and use it along with logic and audiomulch. It'll definitely be a killer set-up for me.

ultrasource · Post by **ultrasource** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:33 pm

I've been looking forward to the day when Cubase and my bent/damaged/lost dongle could be tossed in the bin but I always find a use for old tools. Hell, my 8 track reel to reel comes in handy from time to time.
I love Live 3 and the 4 beta is ridiculously cool. I'm hoping to do everything within Live but who knows.... Cubase sure does handle a lot more audio tracks on my machine. That is.....when the planets align and I can find that dongle that I should just wear on my wrist.

Will you be ditching Logic or Cubase for L4?

horses for coarses

who knows