Do any of you actually have any real musical talent?

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:05 am

fnord

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:06 am

nowtime wrote:
forge wrote:
nowtime wrote:. (preseuming, of course, that successful means financially; .
is it just having the cash? why do you want the cash - is it to travel or buy more gear?

GREAT QUESTION!!

if you just want the money, then you can get right on to different ways of making that happen - it just might be in unexpected areas or mean branching out

THIS THE QUESTION I'M MOST INTERESTED IN. DISCUSS and BRAINSTORM...

I think if you want music to be the thing that pays your way then you have to view a music career as a multi-faceted thing - and understand that your trade is "musician" and just like any trade there will be jobs you dont particularly want to do

so you can do music for whatever gigs you can get - web animations, video/tv - even sound engineering live work

you can play in covers bands as well, or get DJ gigs that might not be totally your bag - there are always venues who want music - and if you dont make the mistake of thinking it's the only thing or the be all-end all then it's just one of your jobs/gigs - a way of getting cash while you work on what you DO want

it really depends how much you want music to pay your way - if you have a day job you enjoy then you dont have to worry too much, you can keep it as a slow burning thing you do in your spare time

basically I think you have to look at it responsibly like any business - get out of the "get rich quick" mindset and keep focused on the bigger picture

the old model is wrong in so many ways

check out www.newmusicstrategies.com - there are some interesting insights on there

and there is a book called "the business of getting more gigs" where he even makes suggestions like sales rep for musical instruments - he strongly makes the point that musicians usually have to do more than one thing to earn their living

but there are plenty of people around earning a good wage from playing in clubs as DJS - it may mean playing tunes that arent your favourite sometimes, but that's the nature of earning money

it's such a personal thing you need to really work our exactly what YOU want to do, and just see all the day to day type gigs as stepping stones

to put it another way - if you can land the right weekend gigs then often you can earn enough to keep the wolves at bay freeing up your weekdays for working on the other stuff - sometimes that means not playing your ideal music but it may be worth it if it gives you time

and like any young business it often means learning to live on less money for a while while you get established

and it can also be unstable - but it can also be very liberating and much better than the daily grind

/2c

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:17 am

http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/11/0 ... ks-at-ted/

watch this!

aisling · Post by **aisling** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:20 am

nowtime wrote:
forge wrote:
nowtime wrote:. (preseuming, of course, that successful means financially; .
is it just having the cash? why do you want the cash - is it to travel or buy more gear?

GREAT QUESTION!!

if you just want the money, then you can get right on to different ways of making that happen - it just might be in unexpected areas or mean branching out

In the creation, and BRANDING of intellectual property.

THIS THE QUESTION I'M MOST INTERESTED IN. DISCUSS and BRAINSTORM...

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:30 am

forge wrote:http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/11/0 ... ks-at-ted/

watch this!

Dude, cool. Thanks

silverlulu · Post by **silverlulu** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:35 am

forge, you are a sexy bitch. very well said. gonna check that link now

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:52 am

silverlulu wrote:forge, you are a sexy bitch. very well said. gonna check that link now

thanks I prefer to be imagined as a sexy bitch

it makes the truth a lot more bearable

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:55 am

dj superflat wrote:a but i've known few truly talented musicians who didn't obtain recognition on some fairly significant level, and almost all were able to make it their job.

Can't say I agree with this, though it's almost true. What I mean is I've personally known some amazingly talented musicians who either could never get their bands together enough to hire a good manager to sell them, or couldn't sell themselves to clubs etc. to make it anywhere. The few clubs they would play the mangers would say how much they loved the music, but it was all about who you fuck and who you do coke with in this town etc.
The last part is a straight quote from a club owner about my band.

A drummer I played with for years.... he was on the first couple Tad records... easily the best drummer I ever played with. Well he wasn't so good at working with people, and became maniacally depressed when his super hot girlfriend grabbed their kid and left him, and now he's on disability for mental issues, and gets drunk on cheap beer.
The guy had more feel in his pinky than any of us here, I'm sure of that. He really should have been a session musician at least. Pretty fucked up, but hey, that's the music industry.
Tad, to me is an example of how the talent VS the machinery of the industry locks you out. The man is heavy, and so is his music, but in this time and place, fat ain't happening on MTV. You have to sell an image as well as a musical package.
Anyway I understand the sentiment of what you're saying, it's just in my experience it really takes more than talent to get anywhere in the music industry, it takes a lot of drive and a little luck as well.

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:08 am

your use of tad as an example confirms i'm likely being misunderstood by most on this thread. tad was a huge success (pardon the pun). not only legendary, but signed to subpop. that's seriously successful in my book, even if you can't retire on it, later end up selling real estate or whatever. e.g., would you claim minor threat wasn't successful or recognized? only if you're measuring success by sales or being embraced by the general public, which doesn't make much sense to me. bad brains? seven second? black flag? big black? etc.

almost by definition, if you've heard of them, they were successful, or at least more successful than 99% of musiciansl. people may feel the need to compare themselves against justin, the neptunes, whoever, but that seems like an extraordinarily narrow definition of success.

as for people questioning themselves, their talent, most do so at some point or another, but in my experience, most who make it big seemed to have had some sense they really could do so, had what it took; but that obviously could just be circular (because ones who don't make it might feel same way).)

as for great drummers or guitar players, you gotta have more than just extraordinary playing ability because, if you don't write, there are literally millions of other guitar players and drummers against whom you're competing.

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:32 am

I rode skateboards for a lot of years and was pretty damn good. Never sponsored by a company but I've ridden in contests as a sponsored amateur and placed pretty hgh anyway. A good friend of mine who was pretty amazing on a board once told me "you have no natural talent".

At first that offended me. But what he meant was that despite that I got pretty damn good and busted my ass to get there, not for any type of reward or recognition, but because I loved doing it. It was a compliment of the highest order.

This music stuff? I've been at it for about 6 years now and still suck pretty bad. No instrument training at all, though eventually I am going to take some lessons, and definitely no natural talent that I can see. It's quite a lot to learn, how to use the software, how to play my keyboard, how to program drums, how to compose.... But it's ok because I enjoy doing it and have the rest of my life to learn.

BLynx · Post by **BLynx** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:51 am

Well, I was told I have a lot of musical talent... I can read music and I've studied counterpoint and orchestration by myself. Plus, I can play pretty much every instrument I laid my hands on. I played violin on orchestras, sang on choirs and played guitar/bass/drums on rock bands. I can play the piano very well, and I used to be a top guitar player on my hometown... I'm pretty good with synths and I can easily program them.

On the other hand, I've kind of lost the touch I had when it comes to composing. I can't write anything, been on a constant writers block for a long time, and man, that sucks...

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:39 am

dj superflat wrote:your use of tad as an example confirms i'm likely being misunderstood by most on this thread. tad was a huge success (pardon the pun). not only legendary, but signed to subpop. that's seriously successful in my book, even if you can't retire on it, later end up selling real estate or whatever. e.g., would you claim minor threat wasn't successful or recognized? only if you're measuring success by sales or being embraced by the general public, which doesn't make much sense to me. bad brains? seven second? black flag? big black? etc.

almost by definition, if you've heard of them, they were successful, or at least more successful than 99% of musiciansl. people may feel the need to compare themselves against justin, the neptunes, whoever, but that seems like an extraordinarily narrow definition of success.

as for people questioning themselves, their talent, most do so at some point or another, but in my experience, most who make it big seemed to have had some sense they really could do so, had what it took; but that obviously could just be circular (because ones who don't make it might feel same way).)

as for great drummers or guitar players, you gotta have more than just extraordinary playing ability because, if you don't write, there are literally millions of other guitar players and drummers against whom you're competing.

Yeah, what I was saying is the artists themselves define success by whether they can pay the bills that month without having to work as a dishwasher, and most don't feel that they are successful because they are known.
Big Black and Minor Threat, well they just might still be bringing in a couple hundred a month in royalties for those guys. My little niece was huge Minor Threat fan a couple years ago.

As for my friend, his drumming on the first couple Tad records sez it all. They went downhill after him, and Ray Washum is nothing to sneeze at behind the skins.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:13 am

Machinesworking wrote:
dj superflat wrote:your use of tad as an example confirms i'm likely being misunderstood by most on this thread. tad was a huge success (pardon the pun). not only legendary, but signed to subpop. that's seriously successful in my book, even if you can't retire on it, later end up selling real estate or whatever. e.g., would you claim minor threat wasn't successful or recognized? only if you're measuring success by sales or being embraced by the general public, which doesn't make much sense to me. bad brains? seven second? black flag? big black? etc.

almost by definition, if you've heard of them, they were successful, or at least more successful than 99% of musiciansl. people may feel the need to compare themselves against justin, the neptunes, whoever, but that seems like an extraordinarily narrow definition of success.

as for people questioning themselves, their talent, most do so at some point or another, but in my experience, most who make it big seemed to have had some sense they really could do so, had what it took; but that obviously could just be circular (because ones who don't make it might feel same way).)

as for great drummers or guitar players, you gotta have more than just extraordinary playing ability because, if you don't write, there are literally millions of other guitar players and drummers against whom you're competing.
Yeah, what I was saying is the artists themselves define success by whether they can pay the bills that month without having to work as a dishwasher, and most don't feel that they are successful because they are known.
Big Black and Minor Threat, well they just might still be bringing in a couple hundred a month in royalties for those guys. My little niece was huge Minor Threat fan a couple years ago.
As for my friend, his drumming on the first couple Tad records sez it all. They went downhill after him, and Ray Washum is nothing to sneeze at behind the skins.

Well I've just been very inspired by Pitch Black recently - the level they are at is the level of success I'd be happy with as far as original music goes

they are not millionaires by any stretch, but they have enough of a following to be able to regularly travel the world playing gigs, sometimes packed, sometimes not - but each time playing their own music

just getting my music to pay my airfares and some extra to pay the bills while I'm away would IMO be a perfectly acceptable scenario!

that's what I meant about being clear on exactly what it is you want

chrysalis33rpm · Post by **chrysalis33rpm** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:00 pm

I think I only have two natural talents in music: one is recognizing good music, regardless of genre or period (except opera...its the only style I just can't crack). The other is intuitively understanding organizational mathematical structures, whether its beats, midi messages, melodies, or geometry for that matter.

These are small things, but useful for a DJ/ wannabe producer. The talent for the recognition of good music is something that a lot of musician's I've hung out with don't seem to have : they have trouble recognizing when they have done something brilliant, or just mediocre. Well, it's always hard to be objective with your own work. This 'recognition' factor is a key component of creating competent mixtapes of course.

The rest is just work that remains to be done, but I find that when I do something good, I can recognize it (even if its more or less accidental) and that the reactions of others confirm my feelings about music and sound.