Do you use Freeze and Flatten a lot?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.

Do you use Freeze and Flatten often?

I use both in every project that calls for it.
26
45%
I use Freeze Track a lot.
10
17%
I use flatten track a lot.
4
7%
I don't utilize either feature much.
15
26%
STFU! NOOB!
3
5%
 
Total votes: 58

4ace
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Post by 4ace » Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:39 pm

leedsquietman wrote:Most of the work I do in runs anywhere from 18-45 tracks, so you bet yo booty I freeze tracks, especially as i tend to have about 5 or 6 sends and sometimes inserts and racks etc. The average project is 28-36 tracks, 3-5 sends and various inserts and if you have CPU chomping synths like NI Massive and Arturia's nice classic analogue emulatons then it is a given to freeze or flatten tracks. They do quite a bit of damage on newer, faster machines too not just my P4 3.2 Ghz laptop.[/i]
+1-- Those project numbers sound alot like most of my project numbers.

It's just good to see that i'm in the same ballpark as someone else....cheers
MacBook Pro 2.4 Ghz 2Gb
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Tarekith
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Post by Tarekith » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:33 am

Most of my projects are less than 20 stereo tracks, so I have no need. Actually, I don't think I've ever used freeze or flatten outside of beta testing. I too delete midi tracks once they are audio, I don't hang on to stuff I don't need.

simpleton
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Post by simpleton » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:58 am

nebulae wrote:Maybe you should try more complex songs, you simpleton!
Hey I resemble that statement!
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The Leveller wrote:Wow, a weird shaped dead coral with sh!t stuck to it. Proof indeed of supernatural abilities.

Landser
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Post by Landser » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:30 pm

Although i'm happily using a quad-core, I'd be lost without freeze, since some synths like Massive or Z3ta+ in oversampling mode can be really heavy on CPU power.
I use freeze in every song but flatten much more less. Nevertheless, it's really great to have it, when i need it.

popslut
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Post by popslut » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:44 pm

The freeze/flatten functions are one of the best parts of Live for me.

To be able to provisionally render a part to audio in a useful way [freeze] is a good way to find out whether the part really is finished; if you haven't unfrozen it and changed it within two hours of freezing it you can safely assume it works and requires no more tarting about.

Then, to be able to convert it to audio, in situ with just one mouse click is a fantastic idea.

In Cubase/Nuendo the freeze function is practically useless as freezing a track disables all editing functions on that track, even down to the automation. The low-level freeze on Live is a brilliant implementation of the concept.

To render a piece of audio in Cubase/Nuendo requires around nine actions - set locators, open menu, select export, select mono/stereo, select output, type name, hit "ok", delete midi track, delete Instrument - whilst the same outcome can be reached in Live in two mouse clicks. Brilliant.


It should also be borne in mind that, for archiving tracks, rendering to audio can be considered essential.

Who is to say that in two years time you will still own the plugins and synths you are using today, or even be able to get hold of them? Perhaps your song relies on technology that will soon be rendered obsolete - as in Steinberg's decision to drop support for DirectX in Cubase 4.

How pissed off would you be in 2009 to discover you aren't able to open you old projects and allow them to be remixed or reworked for that lucrative film deal you just got. My first album was completed in 2002 and I still have call to recall the tracks from it to provide stems for remixers or create alternative live versions for gigs.

Fortunately I had the foresight to render all my individual tracks to audio, starting at measure 1 of the song, so that now I don't have to dig out my XS Key and install Logic 5.5 [my choice of DAW at the time] each time, and find copies of long obsolete plugins that were state of the art in 2002 just to be able to access my own material. I can just drag the individual files into Live or Nuendo and I'm there.

You should always save a version of your tune with everything rendered as audio when you're finished as you have no idea what is going to happen in the future, in terms of opportunities to develop your tunes and in terms of technological advances.

To be able to do it with two mouse clicks as in freeze/flatten is just brilliant.
Last edited by popslut on Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Landser
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Post by Landser » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:12 pm

Popslut,
a very good point.

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:46 pm

yes, I have to agree. Although I don;t always follow that advice I certainly should.

my first album is all on atari cubase floppies and a series of 100meg EMU formatted scsi drives, and the recording is on many reels of Ampex 1 inch some of which need syncing together to get >16 tracks. Talk about inaccessible formats.
I also have a video master on U-matic format, to complete my inaccessible media pack.

you kids today, you don't know what you have got!
get off my lawn, etc.

popslut
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Post by popslut » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:02 pm

Angstrom wrote: my first album is all on atari cubase floppies and a series of 100meg EMU formatted scsi drives, and the recording is on many reels of Ampex 1 inch some of which need syncing together to get >16 tracks. Talk about inaccessible formats.
I also have a video master on U-matic format, to complete my inaccessible media pack.
Whilst preparing to move house recently I found boxes and boxes of Atari Cubase/Akai S1000 floppies which I ceremoniously smashed up with a hammer and took to the tip.

The next day I discovered a box of Ampex 499 2" tape with some old recordings in a damp cupboard in my hallway. The box was alive with mildew and the tape had started shedding oxide and turning into a sticky mass - well beyond baking even if the music on them had warranted it in the first place.

Moral of the story - make sure your magnetic tape archives are well stored if you ever want to play them again.

Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:23 pm

popslut wrote: Moral of the story - make sure your magnetic tape archives are well stored if you ever want to play them again.
a local electro-pop star has mine in his studio's storage facility.
I think the floppies all went in the bin.

corygilbert
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Post by corygilbert » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:11 pm

Angstrom wrote:yes, I have to agree. Although I don;t always follow that advice I certainly should.

my first album is all on atari cubase floppies and a series of 100meg EMU formatted scsi drives, and the recording is on many reels of Ampex 1 inch some of which need syncing together to get >16 tracks. Talk about inaccessible formats.
I also have a video master on U-matic format, to complete my inaccessible media pack.

you kids today, you don't know what you have got!
get off my lawn, etc.
Hey, some of us still know how to align a deck!
But I will admit that I've rolled a reel of blank tape while recording into Logic for a very crappy band that wanted tape. (I started off to the 1 inch, but they sucked so bad and wanted so many micro edits to fix their sound that I said "fuck it")
So I just ran the deck empty and recorded and edited into Logic,
they never knew!!! :twisted:

biroe
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Post by biroe » Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:24 am

audio.android wrote:i render almost everything, because I like chopping up the audio.
yeah me too... I tend to write a lot with midi then make it audio and screw it up a fair bit.

bluskreen
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Post by bluskreen » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:22 am

i did freeze & flatten a lot at first, but my setup has trouble running a lot of 32 bit tracks at once. now i usually just render or consolidate to 24 bit.

nowtime
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Post by nowtime » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:00 am

Anyone know why a Live project will save every old Freeze you've ever done instead of keeping only the most recent one?
Life is Good

philipc
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Post by philipc » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:34 pm

nowtime wrote:Anyone know why a Live project will save every old Freeze you've ever done instead of keeping only the most recent one?
+1 I've got many a wasted gigabyte because of this. There should be an option to delete old ones.

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