Mastering help

kgtr · Post by **kgtr** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:24 am

Hello All,
Does anyone have any tips on mastering? My songs include midi and audio. I'm using compression, EQ, and a little reverb on the master track. No matter what I do it keeps going into the red. When I lower it (to get it green) it's too low. When I render to disk the volume is way too low. Any suggestions or referals to any resources would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Keith

www.keithkukla.com

dabedoo · Post by **dabedoo** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:34 am

use a mastering limiter

waves L3 for example.......if you can afford it of course

I dont know if there's a freeware one on the net

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 am

http://tarekith.com/assets/Leveling.html

http://tarekith.com/assets/mastering.html

laird · Post by **laird** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:36 pm

Yeah, a limiter might help you out.

I bet the problem is this:
You are hitting the red, but your song still sounds too quiet?
Then probably what is happening is that the peaks are still clipping... even if only for a millisecond or less. However, the average volume is too low. "Loudness" is often more affected by high average volumes than high transient peak volumes.

Your compressor plugin probably has an "attack" setting? If the attack is set to 10msec, then 10msec of cliiped audio gets through it before the compressor kicks in. This is often a very handy feature when you want to use the compressor to compress volume, not so much when you are using it to boost volume. So either use a limiter, or use CompressorII and try some of the look-ahead functions (0 msec "attack")

So try that out. And when you are done, and everything sounds loud enough... ask yourself: "is it still punchy? Or is it all flat?"

7G · Post by 7G » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:51 pm

Also i like to use some good old fashion saturation on my master.I prefer Tape...It gives an extra boost and warmth to your track.One other thing to stick in your Master and really helps is a HP@30Hz & LP19KHz filter since you don't need the freqs that passing these points.Here i would like to ask to the experts...How much dB\Octave are you using and do you prefer Linear Phase or Analog style eq's for this?Are you using any notch filters on your master or your channels?

Thanks!

laird · Post by **laird** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:42 pm

I have been recording to actual tape... but I still bring that back into Live as a "send effect". It does add warmth, but sometimes you dont need to run a whole son through a master effect to get "that effect".

Same with EQ. I do run individual tracks through HP filters to remove sub-bass LFO messiness... but different levels on different tracks. I might run my vox through a HP set to 200 hz, while leaving my bass track intact. I dont think you need a super-steep filter to get the desired results... really, if you are pushing your trouble freq's down by -12dB, that's a significant dip imo, enough to tame some badness.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:00 pm

7G wrote:One other thing to stick in your Master and really helps is a HP@30Hz & LP19KHz filter since you don't need the freqs that passing these points.Here i would like to ask to the experts...How much dB\Octave are you using and do you prefer Linear Phase or Analog style eq's for this?Are you using any notch filters on your master or your channels?

Because high-passing at 30Hz is so close to the low end thump you'll hear in a club, I like to use linear phase for that to avoid any phase shifts down there. For the high end, I tend to go for a more analog style EQ, as those can boost the highs without making them overly harsh, which is easy to do with cymbals and EQ. Depends on the EQ plug too, some, like the Sonalksis (while not linear) don't seem to do much to the low end phase when using the hi pass filter. I tend to set mine at 20Hz with a 18 or 12dB slope, maybe down 4-5dB. Again, I don't use it all the time, if the frequency analyzer is showing me there's nothing down there anyway, I leave it alone. Usually it's breaks tunes with deep basses that I find I need this, or maybe tunes with 808 style kicks. As with everything in mastering, don't do it 'just because', do it because you need to.

Note that I never low-pass like you mention, if anything I'm creating a Bandaxall curve to add more 'air' up there. This is done by setting the Q as low as possible, and the frequency to the highest possible (hopefully around 20kHz). Then you add a few dB's of gain. With a good EQ, it can open up the top end ever so slightly.

Both the low end and the high end are things you need to be careful with if you're not sure what you're doing, or are positive the changes you're making will translate well on other systems. So I recommend doing less than you think you might need, stay on the safe side o things so to speak.

alin55 · Post by **alin55** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:01 am

I use this freeware limiter across the master track

george yohng's limiter

a clone of Waves L1 apparently..................

ultrasonyk · Post by **ultrasonyk** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:33 pm

Tarekith wrote:http://tarekith.com/assets/Leveling.html

http://tarekith.com/assets/mastering.html

nice tutorial. thanks for the brain update!

7G · Post by 7G » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:19 pm

Tarekith wrote:
7G wrote:One other thing to stick in your Master and really helps is a HP@30Hz & LP19KHz filter since you don't need the freqs that passing these points.Here i would like to ask to the experts...How much dB\Octave are you using and do you prefer Linear Phase or Analog style eq's for this?Are you using any notch filters on your master or your channels?
So I recommend doing less than you think you might need

Ye, you're right man...One thing i like to do is to analyze good recordings and try to achive that kind of quality in my mixes.Some good analyzers are always essential for me cause i like to see what i hear ...Also different plugs have different sound as you mentioned so you have to experiment there and check what's good for your taste.One thing i like to ask you Tarekith is how you group your channels and what FX are you using on these group tracks to sculpt your sound (comps,gates,exciters etc...).A great tutorial in my opinion would be one that targets the real deal...MIXING!!!As Bob Katz explains "a perfect mixing needs no mastering at all..." + you're also mentioning it in your tutorial "Everything you need to do to make a song sound good can be done in the mixdown"

So a detailed real situation(let's get our hands dirty

...) tutorial on mixing would be essential.Can anyone recommend a good DVD or Book tutorial that shows something like i've explained?Has anyone saw Steinberg's "Internal Mixing"?Is it helpful?
2 of the producers i admire for their sound is Richard Devine and Datach'i...You really can feel those sounds moving all around you without hearing any clattering + the proper amount of fatness!!!Does anyone know if they use Doppler effect plugs to achieve this kind of movement?

Thanks!

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:21 pm

7G wrote:One thing i like to ask you Tarekith is how you group your channels and what FX are you using on these group tracks to sculpt your sound (comps,gates,exciters etc...).

Can anyone recommend a good DVD or Book tutorial that shows something like i've explained?Has anyone saw Steinberg's "Internal Mixing"

Honestly I use far less dynamics processing than you might think, maybe only a couple comps and EQs in each tune. I never use exciters either. I tend to just get the sound I want via synthesis as I'm writing, far faster for me that way. I think even when it comes to mixing, if you just focus on getting the levels right on each part when thinking about the song as a whole, you don't need to resort to all kinds of dynamics processing to get a loud, punchy song. But, that's just my approach.

If you want some mixing tutorials, I recommend reading as many interviews with famous mixers as you can, I find those are the best. EQ magazine is one place to start, and Sound On Sound has an ongoing series where they interview mixers about specific songs. They even post screenshots of the actual plug in settings too.

7G · Post by 7G » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:17 pm

Thanx for the tips man...

Take care

Fhlouz · Post by **Fhlouz** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:38 am

big up

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:52 am

7G wrote:A great tutorial in my opinion would be one that targets the real deal...MIXING!!!As Bob Katz explains "a perfect mixing needs no mastering at all..." + you're also mentioning it in your tutorial "Everything you need to do to make a song sound good can be done in the mixdown" So a detailed real situation(let's get our hands dirty ...) tutorial on mixing would be essential.Can anyone recommend a good DVD or Book tutorial that shows something like i've explained?

http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html

7G · Post by 7G » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:40 pm

Tarekith wrote:
7G wrote:A great tutorial in my opinion would be one that targets the real deal...MIXING!!!As Bob Katz explains "a perfect mixing needs no mastering at all..." + you're also mentioning it in your tutorial "Everything you need to do to make a song sound good can be done in the mixdown" So a detailed real situation(let's get our hands dirty ...) tutorial on mixing would be essential.Can anyone recommend a good DVD or Book tutorial that shows something like i've explained?
http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html

I like your attitude man...hehehe

Bookmarked...

Thanx once again!