Strage Stuttering Lag - have a gig in 3 hours...help?

[djgroovy]

...so as Live user base is mostly made of non-musicians, that have no clues, THEY JUST SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG.


Live 7 sound exciting, I will probably upgrade <---


...and nobody cares about this forum anyway, it full of cluless people and ableton do not even resond to threads like this. ON the contrary on forums that belong to pro audio apps you have a large base of very experienced people who know the fine points of audio production.

the person responsible is just sweeping problems under the rug and Live infantile user base just do not see bugs.

...and you naysayers that hang in here: I do not even want to know your opinion!!!! YOU ARE MORONS

Please dont upgrade, go use pro audio apps who have a large base of very experienced people who know the fine points of audio production.

[ewistrand]

+1 here: clip stutter when fired for the first time, also happens when an effect or instrument is used for the first time, or an fx send is opened....

Mac Book CoreDuo2 2.0 Ghz, 1gb RAM, the set is approx. 750Mb in size.

The problem also appears on a PC: HP Pavilion Turion64, 1gbRAM, double internal harddrive...

It is interesting to note that I did not have this problem with Live5.....

Called Ableton support, and they suggested to expand the RAM as the issue could be related to swapping to/from the internal HD. Anyway, I think I'll have to live with this as I see in this thread....

I'd agree with Ableton from the sounds of it. With the Mac, you're loading the OSX kernel into virtual memory (look at your VM use sometime; the kernel's eating up close to a gig); with only 1 GB of physical memory, you're dancing on the edge. You also aren't saying whether you're using integrated graphics (I'm guessing you are); there's another 128-256 MB down the tubes.

On the Windows machine, you aren't diving into the pagefile quite as much (less overhead), but it's still an issue. What's your pagefile (virtual memory) set at? Do you have it set at a static value (minimum and maximum the same) and at 1.5 times your physical RAM (in other words, 1.5 GB)? If not, do so...

Here again, the integrated graphics thing would apply. If you have integrated graphics, you're probably seeing at least 512 MB taken up in background services alone. Not much room to play, is there?

Journaling (or indexing on a PC); by all means, turn it off.

Dump your temp files and defrag on a regular basis; I do it every day with my XP box. Less clutter=better performance.

And, if you're on a XP machine with a dualcore, download the Microsoft multicore patch;

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/896256

ew

[WaveRider]

What's your pagefile (virtual memory) set at? Do you have it set at a static value (minimum and maximum the same) and at 1.5 times your physical RAM (in other words, 1.5 GB)? If not, do so...

that has been done, I do have a graphic card not integrated memory (I paid a premium for this cause I did not wanted bugs witch I get anyway)

how can that be a factor if it happens on the mac anyway? that is live bad code then, it is useless to hunt bugs on our pc

[WaveRider]

Please dont upgrade, go use pro audio apps who have a large base of very experienced people who know the fine points of audio production.

that is what I would do if I haven't had invested 1000$ in live

[djgroovy]

Then you shouldnt say ableton users know jack shit about music and are all morons: you are one!

[WaveRider]

Then you shouldnt say ableton users know jack shit about music and are all morons: you are one!

yeah! you are right! I am a moron, live does not crackle randomly when firing clips, and YOU MAKE EXCELLENT MUSIC.

[djgroovy]

Looks like you dont like being called moron...

[djgroovy]

and YOU MAKE EXCELLENT MUSIC.

No need to shout, but thanks, i like it too.

[Amaury]

will Ableton give your money back if you cant do your musicthing with this glitching.
you pay a lot of money , so it should work for you.
When i buy a car and it stops driving so now and then,, i will send it back...

I just made another show and it glitched 4 times in a 90 min show. I get that randomly, when loading and playing one set after another, on firing (for the first time) an audio clip, a midi clip, any midi message can cause it like even just touching a keyboard key on my midi controller or a pot that is asssigned to a send... Live produces this crakling sound that lasts half a second. And I am around 15% cpu.

I am really desperate, as I know it is a Live problem (got 3 pcs and all exhibit this problems since I got live at v4), and Ableton support is the worst I have ever seen as they do not even read the forum and won't even care about my bug reports because they want them formatted in a certain way... and it takes way too much time for me to document bugs as they want... like I tell them that live is crashing when recording a track with a lot of pitch bends and here is their answer:
---------------------
in order to help you we need additional information and the logfiles.
Please send us support requests according to this page:
http://www.ableton.com/pages/support_contact

Thanks,
NAME WITHHELD
ableton ag
-----------------


again they do not even want to take it into account my problem because it is not presented to them in the right way BUT I DO NOT WORK FOR ABLETON AND WON'T SPEND HOURS DOCUMENTING THEIR BUGS, I JUST REPORT THEM AND if they cannot listen to someone who has been using their software daily for the last 2 years then it is going to be their lost, as they have a very buggy software (I talk for the pc version, witch is not tested enough, cause I would bet the management all use macs, the pc version is so poorly crippled I cannot believe they really test it)


...so considering this VERY SERIOUS bug of cracking sound when firing clips, that renders all your efforts in doing a quality show useless...


...and they do not even respond tho this thread or acknowledge the problem

...so as Live user base is mostly made of non-musicians, that have no clues, THEY JUST SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG.


Live 7 sound exciting, I will probably upgrade, but I am done as a live musician as long as this cracking on firing clips is not gone....


...and nobody cares about this forum anyway, it full of cluless people and ableton do not even resond to threads like this. ON the contrary on forums that belong to pro audio apps you have a large base of very experienced people who know the fine points of audio production.


I know about 30 ways to crash live on the pc, and a lot of minor but inexcusable bugs, it would take me 2 weeks full time to document them the way they want it. Maybe they should pay for bug hunting? i KNOW THeir quality control on the pc version is very weak!!!! I HAVE ALL YOUR BUGS IN MY FACE EVERYDAY AND YOU NEVER SEEM TO FIX THEM!

...LIKE WHEN I FOUND THE XFADER WAS LEAKING AUDIO f*uck what expertise does it takes to find that???? I wrote it in the forum -they never read it- after 6 more weeks wrote to support -but how in the world they did not find that elephant sized bug by themselves in the meantime???? because they have NO quality control (at least for the pc version)!!!!! the person responsible is just sweeping problems under the rug and Live infantile user base just do not see bugs.

...and you naysayers that hang in here: I do not even want to know your opinion!!!! YOU ARE MORONS

Hi,

I can read that you've gone up to the limit of your patience, and tried hard. I'm not sure what to say for you not to be so desperate (and ultimately reach the goal that we do find out your very issue and solve it)...

- first, we do read the forum, we do or did acknowledge a possible problem on some machines with memory swapping. We do acknowledge bugs from tim to time, others we don't just for lack of time to communicate.

- There are many, many bugs that nobody ever notices, or reports at least. These seem very obvious once known, but are only obvious when you find them.

- There are some issues that are more "esotheric" than others, the audio skipping one is amongst the tricky ones. BUT, we believe we could, along a deep work on the software, solve at least one of the problems that caused some of the "audio skips on first clip launch". It would be great if you can try out the beta and tell us how it goes with you.

- The only info we need for a bug report are:

[1] your hardware details (computer spec, sound card, controllers): you can
save that to a text file and copy/paste it to your bug reports
[2] in some cases the log.txt file that you find in this folder ( So you need only to attach the file to the mail):

* Windows: C:\Documents and Settings\your user name\Application Data\Ableton\Live x.xx\Preferences
* Mac OS X: /Library/Preferences/Ableton

[3] a step by step description as to how it happens, like:

- I click here
- I choose "this command" in "that menu"
-> Live crashes

Of course, that applies to "normal" bugs, the ones you can easily reproduce. If you know 30 ways to make Live crash, and want it to stop, there is no other way but reporting at least the steps that lead to the crash, I'm afraid. We do test ourselves, and find and fix number of crashes, but sure enough, the size of the user base is a great opportunity to be more efficient.

There is no need of course for you to do so, and if you feel like it's not right, just don't do it, but don't expect the bug is fixed until someone else experiences it and reports it. That again applies to "normal bugs", and issue as the one talked about in that thread are more long term issues, very hard to investigate and fix, if ever fixable.

There's now a chance to make the situation improve: try the beta and give a short word about how it goes. Again, no obligation.

Kind regards,
Amaury

[sarrass]

hi all,

has someone of you experienced a better performance on mac os LEOPARD (10.5), compared to TIGER (10.4), concerning the crackle/dropout thing with large sets?

i use a mbp, 2gb ram, and the latest beta of 7 - and i also have a huge set that doesn't fit into ram (>3GB sample material) and i also have the same problem - both on tiger and leopard... and cpu never goes over the 50% mark...

???

thanks

[sarrass]

@amaury:

there must be some telepathic connection here
(you were faster)

[sarrass]

@amaury and all

ok, so as i read your entire recent post, i try to give some infos that i discovered so far on mac os 10.4 and 10.5 and the 7b19 (if this is not the right place in the forum to do so, please give an advice)

- memory management in 10.5 (from the os side) seems better, at least to me: even with my biggest liveset, i have MORE free memory in the activity monitor than on 10.4 after loading the set

- 'buffering samples' message appears immediately after loading the set, using some time (not a problem, just an observation) this is new in v7 - do you like to spread some info about it? just curious...

- after an hour of jamming around (triggering clips and such) the free memory in the activity monitor goes down to 20-30megabytes, which is the "usual" behaviour i experienced on both 10.4 and 10.5, both live6 and 7. the difference i see is that after initially loading the set, more free memory is available on 10.5

hope i could help a bit

[WaveRider]

Thanks for saying your word. You are the best I can get from support. I just want to add that in the past I reported bugs as your guidelines, I have done it many times. I forgot to use the web form last time.

I just got a response for my pitchbend issue that was very informative, so I may work on it to get it in details for you soon.

But back to our crackling when launched-for-the-first-time issue...

try the beta and give a short word about how it goes.

may I ask, can you make me a favor, and try the beta and give me a short word about it, does Live still exhibits that bug?

Remember I am a musician, you are the programmers, I paid for your app... hello?

yeah I do prefer to get some info before working on the your bugs.

just as a good gesture to me, can you tell me:
-do you at ableton are able to reproduce this bug i.e. do you even have a machine that exhibit this problem? I would be much more inclined to help you then.

BTW are betas made available to all registered user? (they are snached in a few hours by this board's enthusiasts, and are not really available if you are on a busy schedule, anyway this is the best of what I know -btw does that serves you well? apparently not)

and issue as the one talked about in that thread are more long term issues, very hard to investigate and fix, if ever fixable.

very hard to investigate?
I have 3 different windows XP computers that exhibits the same problem, and while going thru the 12 different .als files that makes my live set (all are extremely light in term of number and size of samples, and cpu hit) it has a 100% chance of occuring (in fact it will occur from 3 to six times). So I do not now how do you manage to say that is hard to investigate. Unless that is that ALL YOUR PROGRAMMERS ARE WORKING ON LIVE 7 RATHER THAT FIXING THE CATASTROPHIC FAILURES OF LIVE 6.

priorities! it is not about an obscure rarely occurring bug we are talking here, but the inability of Live to produce real-time audio reliably without glitches, witch is a fundamental issue.

so let's recapitulate here: you go from live4 to live7 and this bug stays there!!! I mean, this bug that makes you look like a fool when on a 2000 watt system in front an audience...

and I hardly believe that ANY live setup can be glitch-free as it affects 3 different XP computer of mine and people with macs also. what to do? build a 4th XP system or buy a mac? seems like another gamble either way

So Amaury, what should I do, are my pc incorrectly built or should I stop using live in concert for a moment? yeah maybe working full time bug hunting for you and then resume my musician's life? Please guide me!

[Amaury]

Thanks for saying your word. You are the best I can get from support. I just want to add that in the past I reported bugs as your guidelines, I have done it many times. I forgot to use the web form last time.

I just got a response for my pitchbend issue that was very informative, so I may work on it to get it in details for you soon.

But back to our crackling when launched-for-the-first-time issue...

try the beta and give a short word about how it goes.

may I ask, can you make me a favor, and try the beta and give me a short word about it, does Live still exhibits that bug?

Remember I am a musician, you are the programmers, I paid for your app... hello?

yeah I do prefer to get some info before working on the your bugs.

just as a good gesture to me, can you tell me:
-do you at ableton are able to reproduce this bug i.e. do you even have a machine that exhibit this problem? I would be much more inclined to help you then.

BTW are betas made available to all registered user? (they are snached in a few hours by this board's enthusiasts, and are not really available if you are on a busy schedule, anyway this is the best of what I know -btw does that serves you well? apparently not)

and issue as the one talked about in that thread are more long term issues, very hard to investigate and fix, if ever fixable.

very hard to investigate?
I have 3 different windows XP computers that exhibits the same problem, and while going thru the 12 different .als files that makes my live set (all are extremely light in term of number and size of samples, and cpu hit) it has a 100% chance of occuring (in fact it will occur from 3 to six times). So I do not now how do you manage to say that is hard to investigate. Unless that is that ALL YOUR PROGRAMMERS ARE WORKING ON LIVE 7 RATHER THAT FIXING THE CATASTROPHIC FAILURES OF LIVE 6.

priorities! it is not about an obscure rarely occurring bug we are talking here, but the inability of Live to produce real-time audio reliably without glitches, witch is a fundamental issue.

so let's recapitulate here: you go from live4 to live7 and this bug stays there!!! I mean, this bug that makes you look like a fool when on a 2000 watt system in front an audience...

and I hardly believe that ANY live setup can be glitch-free as it affects 3 different XP computer of mine and people with macs also. what to do? build a 4th XP system or buy a mac? seems like another gamble either way

So Amaury, what should I do, are my pc incorrectly built or should I stop using live in concert for a moment? yeah maybe working full time bug hunting for yhou and then resume my musician's life? Please guide me!

Hi,

Sorry I had not seen your answer. Some here experienced a problem with a specific issue: the first time a clip is launched, they would experience a drop-out. It's mainly caused by an Operating system memory management issue, but we could find a way around it. In our tests, this issue, for these persons, is fixed. That does not mean that all issues for everybody are fixed. Nor that every audio drop out issues are caused by the same problems.

So, in order to test your issue, we'd need to be able to use your machines, or, easier, you could try.

The beta is now over, but of course we'd have given you a serial to test, if asking you to test.

There is no such thing as an online form or online registration to report a bug: give your hardware details, and a clear description of the problem, attach the log.txt file, this is it.

Now, hearing about your problem, I could imagine that it is hardware related:

- Are you using the same sound card on each of the 3 machines?
- Whether it's the case or not, have you tried the build in soundcard?
- Have you tried to make sure it's not a buffer size issue?
- You say that it happens with your 12 Live sets, equally, and that they are "light". What does that mean? Do they use third party plugins? If so, which ones? Do they use a lot of sampling instruments? If so, which ones, and how is the memory load reading, in Windows Task Manager?

I sincerely hope we find where the problem lies for your specific case. Here, we are working on every problem we're able to identify, and believe me, we do investigate and invest a lot of time in making the core of the software better. Hopefully, a lot of people, including big names, run Live in fromt of an audience without a problem. Computer world is not making everybody equal.

Regards,
Amaury

[bradelectro]

So um, COSM any luck? I haven't played out since Halloween but I do recall having 3-4 minor stutters. I guess I'll try the upgrade and see what happens.

If not, I'm considering breaking up my one big Live set into a single .als for each track. My friend recently showed me the live looping functions on his KP3 pad and I immediately thought, "damn I could use this to transition between live files!" Heh heh, OK that's cheating but hey I'm s-s-sick of these damn s-s-stutters!