OT: Damn Teddy Bear's Anyway

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:31 pm

popslut wrote: Oh please, please b0unce - shut up you total penis.

b0unce - please think before you type this kind of horseshit.

Alls I'm saying is, in today's geopolitical climate western white folks should realise they're walking on eggshells in muslim countries. Intellectualising the issue and/or analysing their faith/media/reactionary sects doesn't matter. I'm not for organised religion, I'm not conding these violent protests - I'm slamming her stupidity and nothing more. Irrespective of their own [sudan for example] problems, I'm convinced that there are muslims all over the world who look upon the actions of America/UK in palestine/iraq/afghanistan/tobecontinued etc and take it to heart. Right or wrong doesn't come into it, so if you call around to their neck of the woods and don't tow the line....you're a moron, imo. Your minor indescresion will always be in the context of greater crimes. What do you expect when you put your hand in the fire ? If she had any common sense she should have been extra-cautious and tip-toed around anything remotely related to islam, and ultimately there's more to this issue than simply she named the teddy mohammed. if she was sudanese/muslim/etc the public reaction wouldn't be nearly so violent imo. Wouldn't you agree the reaction of the zealots is due to the context of who commited this crime ? Forget right and wrong, I'm sure it's because she's white and from the UK... I'm pretty sure the events involving the UK in other muslim countries contribute to their hatred. I believe in all good sense we should bare that in mind on this topic. And not just think 'what a bunch of nutters, they take this islam thing way too seriously' etc. But hey - I think I'm alone on this one

And a burka wearing muslim teaching kids in florida would provoke a very similar reaction from very similar zealots and similar media groups if she made a faux pas in class with regards 911. Or the same with regards the july bombings of london. No doubt about that. So...let her stay in jail for being an idiot, imo.

Seems kind of obvious to me you were reading today's guardian...will you be trying any of the hugh fearnley-whittingstall recipes ?

no_barcode · Post by **no_barcode** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:35 pm

Jenga!

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:09 pm

So how do you feel about the case of Samina Malik - found guilty of writing poems and possessing literature?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7084801.stm

b0unce wrote:
Seems kind of obvious to me you were reading today's guardian...

Funny how most of what seems obvious to you is turning out to be wildly inaccurate. I don't do "news" papers and never have.

If you must know I'm lying under a 1979 VW camper in the rain trying to fix a fuel leak, stopping occasionally to warm up, have a cup of tea and tell you you're talking bollocks.

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall doesn't come into it.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:22 pm

popslut wrote: Funny how most of what seems obvious to you is turning out to be wildly inaccurate. I don't do "news" papers and never have.

hehe - Indeed, I do 'news' papers, it may be a challenge dragging myself to the lofty heights of doing 'news' websites, but I will give it a go and report back.

popslut wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7084801.stm

popslut wrote: If you must know I'm lying under a 1979 VW camper in the rain trying to fix a fuel leak, stopping occasionally to warm up, have a cup of tea and tell you you're talking bollocks.

Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall doesn't come into it.

Oh christ, did you really say you dont do 'news' papers, post a link to a 'news' website, and announce you're fixing a vintage VW in the one post ? .....what a self-righteous tosser, and I should know.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:47 pm

well, after doing some of the internet 'news' you provided for me, I have concluded that chick is also an idiot. Dangerous ? Who knows. But certainly retarded. It seems she's not denying possessing that shit, or writing that shit...but rather, her defence is that her intentions are not wicked.

If she would only do some 'news' papers she might have realised that kind of thing is a bit of a legal/cultural 'no-no' in the UK right now. Ho Hum. Thanks for the link tho, I'll keep tabs on this case.

I had to also look her name up +BNP to see what those muppets were saying, and found this 'news' link.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/arti ... article.do

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:22 pm

b0unce wrote:
I had to also look her name up +BNP to see what those muppets were saying, and found this 'news' link.

Nah, yer alright. I've no more interest in reading a link about the BNP than I have in sticking pins in my cock-end.

Let me take a wild guess:

The BNP since the year dot... wrote:Muslim... black bastard... terrorist... send 'em back... coon... uncontrolled immigration... Ain't no black in the Union jack...

If you're going to try to convince me that appeasing the BNP is a good reason to start locking people up for writing poems and downloading stuff off the internet, you're going to be disappointed.

I'm actually very surprised you think that's a good idea - you're usually quite on the case.

...that chick...

"Chick"?

And you mock me for not "doing" newspapers? You're such a tool b0unce.

post a link to a 'news' website...

To save myself several hundred keystrokes explaining to you who Salima Malik was, in case you didn't know. It's a common technique on internet discussion forums you know. Saves clogging up pages with reams of text.

What am I saying, you know this, you do it all the time.

...and announce you're fixing a vintage VW in the one post ?

It's not a "vintage VW" - it's a rusty old camper van with a fuel leak.

A vintage car is commonly defined as a car built between the start of 1919 and the end of 1930.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vintage_car

Now - don't give yourself a groin strain trying to find a way to mock me for posting a link to Wikipedia. I didn't want to fill my post up with unnecessary text but I do want to cite my source so you can read further if you wish.

See how it works?.

...what a self-righteous tosser, and I should know.

Indeed you should, but I'm afraid in this case you're reaching.

I'm sure it comforts you to pigeonhole me as a Guardian-reading ponce with a vintage car and an Aga, makes me easier to dismiss, but I'm afraid your system of lazy stereotyping has failed you this time.

Now, enough of this twattery - are you seriously trying to tell me you approve of prosecuting people for writing poems, however bad they might be?

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:57 pm

lol - there's no way on earth I would affiliate myself with the BNP or aim to appease them. When I was thinking of gibbons and the zealots calling for her head etc, and then Malik...well the BNP came to mind as the UK equivilant. So lets be clear on that.

As for your definition of vintage, in my country a vintage vehicle is over 25 yrs old. You can drive a 1979 VW camper van around here with 'vintage insurance' ...i.e it costs sweetFA to insure. I'll go with the insurers definition in this case.

I certainly dont approve of the terrorism act in the UK, I think it's horse-shit and it could very easily stifle righteous dissent and/or freedom of speech. Especially considering the political climate we live in, especially for residents of the UK & America for obvious reasons. My whole point in this thread is some people are stupid, and they stick their hands in the fire. Whether the fire should be there in the first place is not what I'm talking about - don't stick your hands in the fire and expect anything other than 3rd degree burns. If you see a fire - put it out. Or circumnavigate it. I find it hard to sympathise with the willfully obtuse, sometimes. Living in the UK, today, calling yourself a 'lyrical terrorist' and collecting 'terrorist' manuals etc....with a law like the terrorist act in place.....sorry but she was really, really stupid.
She set herself up on this, big time. Opponents of the terrorism act shouldn't hitch their trailer to this case, imo.

innocent or full of wicked intent - she's stupid. That's all I'm sayin. Very interested in the outcome of this case tho. As for the chick remark, well I meant it largely as a reference to her youth...but for obvious reasons too. I'm fairly flippant these days

daniel_grieff · Post by **daniel_grieff** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:05 pm

I have to say that I agree with b0unce on this issue. Here in Britain theres a large, and growing feeling that all immigrants into this land should both abide by our laws and speak our native language etc.
Seems to me like 'western' people, and Im sorry to be so vague about this, have a disposition that allows them to justify disobeying rules that weren't created/are enforced by a 'western' government.
Frankly, you might view the slur Islam as minor and hardly worthy of punishment, but conversely I happen to view some of the punishments dished out in this country as extreme and disproportionate to the crime.
IF the law of the land says you can get lashed for naming a Teddy bear such, then you will get lashed for doing so. Just because as a westerner we find it hard to justify, that doesnt mean a law is incorrect.
All Im saying is that if you cant live by their laws, dont visit the bloody country....

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:34 pm

well, to be accurate it was a boy called Mohammed who called the bear Mohammed. The teach merely asked the class to choose a name.
His parents and all the other parents were aware of this, as was the rest of the school. Nobody had any problem with the boy and the class of children choosing this name. Oh, apart from a classroom assistant who had recently started at the school.

Now, you are saying this is an equivalent situation to something in the UK, or in the west? You are really saying that?

I'm interested to read how you see something as innocuous as "England expects imigrants to learn English" is equivalent to

Protesters shouted: "No tolerance: execution" and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad".Hundreds of riot police were deployed to the protests in Martyr's Square, but they did not try to stop the rally.

I think about 50% of the Somalians around here speak no English whatsoever. I don't quite remember the last time a Somalian was executed by firing squad for that, or actually punished in any way. Oh, wait, they were insulted horribly by the meek suggestion that they might possibly have to learn English to help cut down on translators provided by the council. So nothing happened.

yes, that is equivalent. we are evil.

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:24 pm

All I want to contribute to this thread is that everywhere in the world people are is getting WAY too sensitive. And in my mind a zero tolerance policy towards stupidity is not a good thing either. It's a trend that appears to be happening everywhere. Not just happening in Sudan, Britain, or believe it or not even in America.

America is becoming overly sensitive too about subcultures within our own culture. Just think about how sue-happy everyone is here in America! You can barely ask anything in a job interview here without worrying about a possible discrimination case. Increasingly, you've got to be more and more careful what you say or what you do in any culture. We have the extreme sensitivity trend in America here as much as anywhere else.

This (what seems like a worldwide trend) can't continue to intensify without harmful side effects. How much further can the sensitivity tension go? People need to loosen up a little and get back to basics. Enjoy life for what it is and give people the benefit of the doubt.

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:27 pm

b0unce wrote:she's stupid. That's all I'm sayin.

I would be careful about advocating locking people up for the "crime" of stupidity. You might end up getting your collar felt.

Living in the UK, today, calling yourself a 'lyrical terrorist'...

Well "Shinobi The Lyrical Assassin" had better watch his step too then eh?

Are you going to report him or shall I?

I find it hard to sympathise with the willfully obtuse, sometimes.

I know how you feel.

So are you suggesting that Gillian Gibbons willfully set out to insult her hosts and that the Sudanese government are behaving entirely rationally?

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:29 pm

icedsushi wrote:All I want to contribute to this thread is that everywhere in the world people are is getting WAY too sensitive.

You're not including ME in that, are you? Are you?? How could you SAY such a thing?? Oh, boohoohooo....

ThrowAway · Post by **ThrowAway** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:51 pm

b0unce wrote:
Angstrom wrote:http://www.muslim.org/islam/abuse.htm

It is entirely false and totally unfounded to allege that Islam teaches Muslims to murder anyone who verbally abuses their religion, mocks it, or offends their feelings towards their faith.

On the contrary, Islam requires its followers to show patience under provocation, and to disregard and ignore the abuse. (Of course, if the abuse contains any allegations against Islam or the Holy Prophet Muhammad which require to be refuted, then these should be answered, but by verbal means only.)

or a firing squad, whichever satisfies the braying mod of morons best.

I think this issue is less to do with faith and more to do with general human stupidity.

man - that's myopic as fuck, and a shining example of the general human stupidity you refer to. You seriously think the mob have no other reason to be so angry? Oh sure, it's just the teddy bear thing. Ya, iraq doesn't come into this and the hundreds of thousands of dead iraqi's or the ones fucked up by radiation due to your dirty bombs, or stealing their oil, or the sanctions etc. Palestine doesn't come into this either. Nah, we're pretty peachy about all that stuff....but grrrrrrrrrrrr don't call the teddy mohammed. We're likely to go insane about this issue, which is totally isolated and has nothing to do with you systematically fucking us with your military might.

wake up and smell the white phosphorus

I couldnt agree with you more. you could add the last 60 or so years of history of the US fucking with the middle east for the us governments sole benefit. It goes back along way.

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:03 pm

mikemc wrote:
icedsushi wrote:All I want to contribute to this thread is that everywhere in the world people are is getting WAY too sensitive.
You're not including ME in that, are you? Are you?? How could you SAY such a thing?? Oh, boohoohooo....

Oh no! Did I offend you? I did! I'm sorry! I'm sorry! Please forgive me.

I'll take back my words, anything I need to do. My hurtful words weren't directed at you personally. And I didn't know I was being hurtful towards you. Everything is fine, the world is fine and I didn't mean so say anything that could be misconstrued as negative to cause you mental anguish.

I wasn't attempting to hold myself above the rest of the world. I mean I AM just as sensitive as you. No, I mean, uh there isn't any extreme sensitivity going on and we're both not that sensitive. Oh no, that didn't come out like I wanted to say it. Yikes, I'm digging myself a deeper hole here.

I don't know what else to say. I'm sorry...very sorry... oh my gosh

oops oops

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:23 pm

B0unce, this woman is not stupid! She is a pitiful victim of a country full of even more wretched victims whose goverment uses this petty incident to instirr a feeling of community among the poor crowds in a sense of: "We against them!" It's an old trick that worked for many leader, goverments and societies downto gangs and family size. You are right in that humanity is quite stupid in general, but your arguments do not help to enlighten us.

And there most likely is no clear sudanesian nor islamic law stating that you are not responsible with your life to make sure your class does not give their teddy or bears or whatever the name of the prophet. So the argument that she broke some law is not valid. In fact there is a custom among muslims to call every fourth son after the prophet, what if that child turns out to be especially ugly or even retarded? Are the parents to be killed for allowing such an insult to the prophet by not killing their own son?

The argument that she was insensible about that the naming of the teddy bear after the prophet's name what could be discussed. But since muslims around the world are obviously not that sure how much this is to be to condemned or any sin at all, how is a christian school teacher supposed to be knowing that?

Now one could argue that for a non-muslim of non-african heritage it would be a wise thing to get away from anything that might even come close to start a grudge from muslims. But thankfully and rightfully we europeans share a heritage of enlightment for several centuries now and while everyone can be expected to be as polite and respecful to people from other cultures as possible you must not by any means ask us to deny our own culture and heritage just to please others. We can all take back a bit, but as much as they demand our respect we can ask for theirs.

If Nazis get to power and start killing jews all over the place again with the general mob in their support, do you want me "not to be stupid" and keep my mouth shut about it, so as to not hurt the Nazis feelings and pride? Now let's say I wouldn't even mind going along the lines of the Nazi majority and have no intend of offending/opposing them, but by poor luck I happened to do something they don't happen to like. Would that make me stupid?

Please, B0unce, stay reasonable in your argument. Calling people stupid in such a complex situation is far from giving elaborate arguments in a discussion.