How do I overdub record in cycle mode in arranging view

[Briangoodman]

This may be a dumb question but I cannot ever work this one out. Hopefully I can explain properly so here goes. I prefer to record and arrange midi from left to right like Cubase. When Im arranging I work in a sense that I play and add new parts or additions to already existing parts in a spontaenous manner as I write and arrange.


For example I may wish to add some drum fills by hand (tapping the synth keyboard keys or my drum pads) from bar 15-16. With Cubase I loop the one bar section and add my drum notes in an overdub style and then move on. I may take 8 or 16 or 40 measures to get it correct but usually I get it right first time for the live musical feel. But when I perform this action with Live I have recorded either one measure and a bit or when it takes longer it can be 6/12/15.2 in length and I haven't overdubbed the recording is as long as the time I looped the sequencer and those strange lengths are very annoying

Obviously there is a way to do this and Im quite embarrassed to ask but Im not a heavy user of Live I use it in rewire mode mostly for looped audio drums but I would like to use Live a little more if I could work this problem out. I know I can create the little boxes in the other view and loop overdub but this is a long way to do it for the way I work and its to cumbersome for working in a left to right fashion when you wish to work fast. You see, I often play a track from start to finish quickly looping small sections and doing fast overdubs.

I hope I haven't over explained

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Briangoodman]

Just in case I didn't make it clear I meant overdub cycle recording in the arranging view

[Briangoodman]

Anybody willing to help trying everything I can think of right now

[Briangoodman]

Ok Im beginning to think people must think the answer is so obvious I must just be a very stupid person and not worth the time to answer. Im sure it is obvious but I cannot understand how to make it work. I have been trying all night in live 7 demo and the live 6 I own to make this happen

[tricil]

make sure the loop and overdub buttons are engaged on the transport bar, enable master record (F9)

[Briangoodman]

Tricil > Thank you for that. I never thought to hit the overdub button. previously I would hit the main and track record button and end up with long sections of strange lengths. But now I have 3 buttons to hits when overdubbing. to much clicking and distractions for spontaneous work


Is there some sort of midi thru always on function so that when I select a different midi track I don't need to hit that specific tracks record button. Like Cubase that automatically puts you in to records standby so you only need to hit the main record button' and your done. Otherwise this is a terribly long way to go about recording parts in arrange mode. I have to consolidate the part after each recording to unless I stop and start from the beginning of the bar. that must surely be a bug. I would like to just drop in and out on various tracks without all the nonsense as it makes things go much faster and smoother. Still thanks for your advice at least I can overdub without having to make new boxes in the other page first which was a total turn off from even using the software. I think ableton need to seriously look at the arranging view because its very archaic.

[pat the dog]

hi brian,

i completely agree, live's arrange view could really do with some improvements.

anyway see here for a workaround to avoid clips from getting split halfway through a bar:


http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

regarding automatically arming tracks, that doesn't seem to be possible but i set up my controller to emulate a tranzport which has a button to arm the currently selected track. also with tranzport emulation you can set up buttons to select previous/next track which sound like it would be useful to you.

see here http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... =tranzport

[Briangoodman]

paththedog > yes it is extremely annoying and frustrating. Since this morning I have been trying to get this to work properly after what tricil told me. I wonder how I explain what is happening

I can over dub record but so many things go wrong but worst thing of all is that 50% of the time what I record in with auto quantise on plays back as if I played with quantise off or when it is in time notes are in the wrong place. I wonder if you get this same problem. I am using Halion for all my drums so it may be the plugin I will need to further test. I still get the split parts and strange start points and after the recording when I look at the edit grid the grid view has changed to a very long midi clip as if it were the whole tracks song and the locators are zoomed all the way out. I think live is creating the start record point from when I punch in to start the recording as I cycle before hitting the overdub - record button and this is very bad I think because it should be obvious that musicians setting up a cycle of an exact amount of measures would want for their recording to start - be created from the beginning of the loop cycle where the left and right locators are set regardless of where they punch in. I cannot think of any other software i ever use that has the live system - it makes no sense at all and I constantly think there must be a reason for this but cannot work it out

I use live 6 but already notice in live 7 demo mode the timing is better because notes don't playback unquantised so i suppose this puts halion in the ok stable. with this in mind that would mean live 6 maybe has a bug with the midi timing recording in the arranging view in the arranging view because in the other view I dont get this problem when overdub cycyle recording. I agree the arranging view needs some work it surprises me ableton make other developments in areas that don't seem so important as this and from what I know as a live buyer since version 5 there has been no updating of the arranging operations since then or maybe even before version 5. Could it be the company doesn't want people to record in arranging view but if this is correct it makes no sense because automation cannot be recorded in the other view and lots of people prefer working from left to right and really importantly many like to mix and edit as they write a song so they are mixing it like a record in a way but this can only be done in arranging mode.

I would be really interested to hear what other people think of this and share experiences to make it better for the people that prefer to work in this mode. I dont really like the other view I find it confusing and it just isnt my style. I dont expect live to have the capability of the other sequencers arranging view but live is letting down the users that like the software for other styles and users that dont like to work with the square box approach so a little improvement here and there would be most welcomed. It is up to their seventh version and the way it works at present is like a beginner programmers first attempt to make a sequencer. They must surely be aware of this situation

This is really the main reason I don't use live very much but I would like to use it more because I like many things about the software. I cant see me upgrading to live 7 but I suppose that because cycle recording is better I will still think about it. I want to upgrade but then I don't because of this and a few other things like the track delay parameter gone when using drum racks. im confused

[pat the dog]

i'm not sure what your quantizing issue is but if it's fixed in live 7 then it does sound like a bug. otherwise i wonder if you have a problem with latency. also i read about a bug where live can change your record quantize setting to straight 16ths without warning. so if you were expecting to record in triplets or something, then that might have something to do with it coming out different.

as for the general subject of recording into the arrangement view you've hit on several of the things that have frustrated me about live over the years. i think ableton's suggested workflow is to record all your parts in session view then trigger the parts/scenes while recording the result into arrange view.

this workflow is something that has carried over from earlier versions of live and it still seems to suit a lot of people, though personally i find its usefulness fairly limited. i do usually begin my songs this way, but after i've jammed some clips into the arrange view i usually want to record some new parts which is difficult to do back in session view because you lose sight of your arrangement.

and if you try taking your parts back out of the arrangement into session view so you can develop your track there, then you lose your automation.

i'm sure ableton will think of something to improve this. to be honest the workflow could really be helped just by providing automation in session view and having better integration between the views - such as alias clips where a clip in one view is an "instance" of a corresponding clip in the other view allowing you to record and update clips in whatever view you're most comfortable with.