OT: Damn Teddy Bear's Anyway

[popslut]

Maybe you should have introduced it as a 'poor scabby old van' instead of a '1979 VW Camper' , eh what old bean - eh ? eh?

Nope, I'm still not getting it.

I suspect that had I "introduced it as a 'poor scabby old van' instead of a '1979 VW Camper' " you'd have just accused me of inverted snobbery instead.

I'm curious as to why it matters to you at all to be honest; I suspect you're somebody who navigates by narrow stereotypes and by lazily labelling me a Guardian reading, Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall admiring, vintage vehicle driving, two-dimensional cardboard cutout you're able to avoid relating to me as a real person and carry on existing in simple, unscary b0unce-world.

I'm suggesting that even when the law is WRONG, sometimes idiots find themselves at odds with it and I have little sympathy for them for placing themselves so willingly in harm's way.

You're suggesting that Gillian Gibbons deliberately set out to offend her hosts and insult their religion, an opinion you share with a few hundred hardline fundamentalists and virtually nobody else. To suggest she placed herself "so willingly in harm's way" is to grossly misrepresent the truth in my opinion, as well as the opinions of The Muslim Council of Great Britain, every moderate Muslim whose opinion I am aware of and now, apparently, the President of Sudan.

Championing those retards is NOT the way to battle stupid laws.

No. The way to battle stupid laws is to label everyone who falls foul of them as "retards" and defend the locking up of people for speaking and writing poems.

Of course, we both know that even if you were to suddenly realise you're talking like a cock, there is no way you'd admit it to a Guardian reading, Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall admiring, vintage vehicle driving, two-dimensional cardboard cutout.

Your go.

[b0unce]

I suspect that had I "introduced it as a 'poor scabby old van' instead of a '1979 VW Camper' " you'd have just accused me of inverted snobbery instead.

I'm curious as to why it matters to you at all to be honest; I suspect you're somebody who navigates by narrow stereotypes and by lazily labelling me a Guardian reading, Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall admiring, vintage vehicle driving, two-dimensional cardboard cutout you're able to avoid relating to me as a real person and carry on existing in simple, unscary b0unce-world.

hehe! Your suspicions are wrong. You made a point of the year and make of your van, not me. So you deal with it. Some of the things you said were word-for-word printed in the guardian that day, which I happened to read. I didn't intend to suggest you read the guardian to pidgeon hole you into some kind of archetype. The hugh fearnley-whittingstall question was also genuine, as I recall you like good food and have spoken about it here on the board. I reckon you're being a wee bit defensive on this one, but that's the last I'll say on this particular topic. It's too non-conclusive...

I'm suggesting that even when the law is WRONG, sometimes idiots find themselves at odds with it and I have little sympathy for them for placing themselves so willingly in harm's way.

You're suggesting that Gillian Gibbons deliberately set out to offend her hosts and insult their religion, an opinion you share with a few hundred hardline fundamentalists and virtually nobody else. To suggest she placed herself "so willingly in harm's way" is to grossly misrepresent the truth in my opinion, as well as the opinions of The Muslim Council of Great Britain, every moderate Muslim whose opinion I am aware of and now, apparently, the President of Sudan.

NO, not deliberately. You're confusing my total lack of sympathy for her stupidity with lack of sympathy because she did it on purpose. She should have known better, that's my only angle. Fuck the muslim council of great britain and elsewhere for that matter, she should only concern herself with the laws/muslim council of Sudan and how it's interperated there if that's where she chooses to place herself - had she any common sense that is. As for the President of Sudan and her pardon, great...hallelujah infact, I'm saying for her stupidity she should be at the mercy of their law and if they choose to pardon her that's fine and not in the least at odds with what I've been saying. She's been pretty lucky imo. And what the president has realised is NOT that they took the issue too far (but who knows), but that if the UK stopped sending hundreds of millions of sterling pounds in aid , which was threatend - that would suck big time. Not worth making her stick around jail for the remainder of her sentence. eh what?

Championing those retards is NOT the way to battle stupid laws.

No. The way to battle stupid laws is to label everyone who falls foul of them as "retards" and defend the locking up of people for speaking and writing poems.

... listen, why don't you cut & paste the poems that are causing such a fuss. add to that her collection of bomb making tutorials, poisoners guidebooks, etc etc - she's a fucktard, nuffsaid. and fucktards like her bolster the terrorism act. and the terrorism act is bad thing because guys like Ted Honderich might be silenced by it.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctytho/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Honderich

that's just how we feel about it in b0unce world tho.

Of course, we both know that even if you were to suddenly realise you're talking like a cock, there is no way you'd admit it to a Guardian reading, Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall admiring, vintage vehicle driving, two-dimensional cardboard cutout.

Your go.

I'd be quicker to admit it than you, old bean!
Anyways, like I said a couple of paragraphs up - you're taking that guardian/hugh thing too defensively imo.

[djadonis206]

Linda Lovelace (orginal actress from Deep Throat) had a kitty named ADOLF HITLER that cruised the sets of some of her movies (namely DEEP THROAT)


http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_ ... ar_culture

there were a couple Jews involved in the production of deep throat <-- they didn't seem to mind

[Timur]

She should have known better, that's my only angle.

Why should she have known better? You still suggest that the responsibility for the naming of the teddy bears after the prophet's name to be absolutely obvious and "common sense". This seems to be gross oversimplification as long as you cannot backup your claim with more than what seems to be prejudices on islamic culture from your side. It does sound like your oppinion is: "All those muslims living down there near the stone-age are well known to get embarassed by any outsider even daring to speak the prophet's name. It's like the scene in Monty Python's "Life of Brian" when the man was stones for saying Jahve/Jehova."

Personally I think (and stated before albeit my statements don't seem to take part in this rather personal discussion anyway) that it's more often a matter of wanting to feel superior or feeling inferior than a religious matter. But that may be prejudice on my own part. But since from a middle-eastern person's point of view I am authorized by my father's blood to be part of their culture I am in the (un)comfortable position to be able to state my oppinion from another position than other western europeans sometimes.

But presuming your statements were utterly right and as simple as that. Where do you suggest we should get informed about random local arbitrariness next time we chose to travel to foreign countries (or just another city-district)?

[pixelbox]

I still want to know where the fuck my airplanes are with my 911/Jenga playset, damnit.

[sans soleil]

Why should she have known better?

errr..if you were going to work in sudan, particularly as a white british woman, i think you'd want to brush up on the culture just a wee bit first...

interesting debate, anyway.

[popslut]

stuff

We're going round in circles now. Let's stop before we bore the server into disk errors.

...you're taking that guardian/hugh thing too defensively imo.

That's rich coming from a bog-trotting, spud munching, drunken half-wit in wellies and a donkey jacket.

Although if I ever need somebody to tarmac my driveway I'll know who to call.

Begorrah etc.*


The whole Guardian reader thing has caused moderate mirth in my house as it couldn't be more wrong.

Next time you feel tempted to imagine me in black square-rimmed glasses, poring over a Gurnard and celeriac roulé in my genteel, rustic country kitchen, picture me, instead, with my oil-stained knock-off tracky bottoms round my ankles, reading a copy of Viz on the bog.

You'll be so much closer to the truth.


*Hey - stereotypes are fun!!

[chrysalis33rpm]

Why should she have known better?

errr..if you were going to work in sudan, particularly as a white british woman, i think you'd want to brush up on the culture just a wee bit first...

interesting debate, anyway.

Uhh...and brushing up on the culture includes what to name teddy bears? Yeah, its her fault because she obviously didn't do her homework and was culturally insensitive. As somebody above said, its not like she was parading around in a tank top, she LET THE CLASS PICK A NAME.

[Timur]

Why should she have known better?

errr..if you were going to work in sudan, particularly as a white british woman, i think you'd want to brush up on the culture just a wee bit first...

Please think that over again. The way you state it sounds either as if you are either very intimate with the customs in Sudan or most of us were ignorant to obvious customs that should be common knowledge. If you are very intimate with those customs, please share your knowledge with us so that we understand the complex implications of the inccident.

Given the fact that musicians are generally quite aware of cultural diversity and that at least those people engaging in such discussions can hardly be mistaken for generally ignorant people I tend to think that your assumption is based on the same general prejudice that I suspect b0unce to suffer from, namely that traditional muslims are generally rather hypersensitive fundamentalist than sensible people. Now we can start discussing if this is a rightful assumption or really just a prejudice.

[electrik noize]

....As somebody above said, its not like she was parading around in a tank top, she LET THE CLASS PICK A NAME.

so just wondering aloud here, does that mean the children should have been executed?

i mean they LIVE in the country for goodness sake, shouldn't they know not to name teddy bears muhammed.

[adventurepants_]

anytime i go travelling, i read up a lot on customs and history of the places I visit.

to me it just makes life easier, if you dont go around offending your hosts! whether or not their customs are insane, they are their customs.

and if you dont like it, then dont visit.

and anyone with a passing interest in Islam knows that you dont make pictures or representations of the Prophet, such as calling a teddy bear by his name.

[Timur]

so just wondering aloud here, does that mean the children should have been executed?

i mean they LIVE in the country for goodness sake, shouldn't they know not to name teddy bears muhammed.

While this is quite a cynic twist on the discussion, I think the children are left out of this because they are not responsible for their actions. You could argue about the parents, head of school other teachers though (they all knew about it). But then again they will argue that the teacher has teased the kids into committing the election.

For those who don't know: The election was the important part of her lesson anyway and after that the homework that every kid was to write a short story about the bear. These kids don't know nothing about democratic elections and I would not wonder if the goverment was more offended by the teacher teaching the kids the principles of elections (and expression of free will and democracy) than the naming of the bear. But that's guesswork.

[chrysalis33rpm]

....As somebody above said, its not like she was parading around in a tank top, she LET THE CLASS PICK A NAME.

so just wondering aloud here, does that mean the children should have been executed?

i mean they LIVE in the country for goodness sake, shouldn't they know not to name teddy bears muhammed.

Well, I can't fault your logic...

[b0unce]

No. The way to battle stupid laws is to label everyone who falls foul of them as "retards" and defend the locking up of people for speaking and writing poems.

hey popfag

enough with the red herrings,
post the poems in question - especially the beheading one, along with the list of evidence being thrown at her - which isn't being denied.
this whole "she's being locked up for speaking and writing poems" is a horseshit rationalisation.

go ahead and print the poems here for all to see, or stfu.

[Timur]

Ok guys, you don't want anyone to discuss with anyone anymore anyway, but prefer calling each other names. I'm leaving this thread for good.