What would you do...?

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:35 am

Pitch Black wrote:So we should be no better than clergy in the Catholic Church who closed ranks and hushed up the kiddy-fiddling they knew was going on?

you mean CD fakers are on a par with Paedophiles? Holy crap I didnt realse it was that bad!

you have much anger in you young padewan, let go of your hate, it is a path to the dark side

COSM · Post by **COSM** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:42 am

I think i need to surface this again. I'll handle the consequences.

A response for the people in question here (spelling in tact)

. the both of us are trying loads of diffrent options for the live set, trying to find the best way of doing it! giving us the freedom to able to utilise our versitility in regards to the fact we can play to the crowd i.e we can play trancy or bangin hard. we have been using Abelton live but i find that it is so boring for the crowd, im a very animated Dj and find it looks like im sending e-mails to my mum and end up not really getting in to it. so at the momment im mixing our tunes and ryan plays some of the riffs and samples, and i quite like it, all the tunes are our own and after researching other live acts such as lab 4, who tried heaps of diffrent options over there 10 years and were rated #1 live act in the world and they used dat tapes etc so i dont think it matters as long as the tunes are your own, thats just what i think mate cheers

From now on I am going to put Dr. Tom Cosm on everything, because one day I plan on having a PHD.

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:43 am

forge wrote:
Pitch Black wrote:So we should be no better than clergy in the Catholic Church who closed ranks and hushed up the kiddy-fiddling they knew was going on?
you mean CD fakers are on a par with Paedophiles? Holy crap I didnt realse it was that bad!

you have much anger in you young padewan, let go of your hate, it is a path to the dark side

Nah "the only thing needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing".

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:55 am

COSM wrote:A response for the people in question here (spelling in tact)

. the both of us are trying loads of diffrent options for the live set, trying to find the best way of doing it! giving us the freedom to able to utilise our versitility in regards to the fact we can play to the crowd i.e we can play trancy or bangin hard. we have been using Abelton live but i find that it is so boring for the crowd, im a very animated Dj and find it looks like im sending e-mails to my mum and end up not really getting in to it. so at the momment im mixing our tunes and ryan plays some of the riffs and samples, and i quite like it, all the tunes are our own and after researching other live acts such as lab 4, who tried heaps of diffrent options over there 10 years and were rated #1 live act in the world and they used dat tapes etc so i dont think it matters as long as the tunes are your own, thats just what i think mate cheers

Well, if thats their response, and they feel quite happy that they are a live act with what they do, lets see the video and let everyone decide for themselves.

They should have no problem with that...eh?

Video please!

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:57 am

Tom, stop the foreplay and get on with it. I'm starting to get a headache with all the blueballs already.

COSM · Post by **COSM** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:09 am

I am not comfortable putting up the video without first editing it and asking the artists in question, because its obvious they are on some pretty hard drugs when they are playing and it is difficult to find shots that are usable because of this.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:16 am

jesus christ, he takes them from blue to fucking cold purple!!!!

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:28 am

nebulae wrote:jesus christ, he takes them from blue to fucking cold purple!!!!

do you think we could get at least one post from you that doesn't involve some kind of reference to your gonads?

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:30 am

forge wrote:
nebulae wrote:jesus christ, he takes them from blue to fucking cold purple!!!!

do you think we could get at least one post from you that doesn't involve some kind of reference to your gonads?

awwww nuts!

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:24 am

Everyone, everyone, RELAX!

Take a deep breath.

Now turn your attention to this:
http://kittywigs.com/wigindex.html

Nogi · Post by **Nogi** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:17 am

Pitch Black wrote:But if you are conciously pretending to play an instrument, and by your actions, you expect the audience to believe you are playing an instrument, that is not "presentation" that is faking/deception/fraud.

Do you feel Milli Vanilli shoud have their Grammies restored (yes, difficult as one is deceased) if they came out and said "Actually, we were being ironic, and were making a statement about manufactured pop music today..." etc.

The thing was their intent to fool the viewing public into thinking they were actually singing live. The intent to mislead is what was wrong. If an act is advertised and pushed as being a live act, and they are not, that is wrong.

I submit that many artists conspire on a daily basis to mislead the public at large.

Awards for art are silly. Give everyone a Grammy - like those soccer ribbons that say 'Participant' on them. Milli Vanilli was stripped of their Grammy for accreditation fraud not because they couldn't or wouldn't sing.

Regard lip sync'ing as an analog to this case: If you are pretending to manifest ability that you actually have, is that fraud? Say, you can sing but for purposes of the show you need to dance as well. Dancing is exhausting and you can't sing if you can't breathe, further the sound guy is ready to strangle you for exhaling like an asthmatic into your headset. Since you are a human being, the singing suffers or the show at large suffers. Now choose in which way you are prepared to suck. This is a tough business.

As to pretending to manifest skills which you do not have: While that may make you a 'hack', it isn't an indictment of your ability to entertain in a live setting. There has never been a correlation between sweat or technical acumen and applause in low culture.

You may personally decide that you are not prepared to make such compromises. But, time is fleeting and the audience is fickle. You'd best play shows while you can. Besides, you may never have those abilities you aspire to possess. Likely, even if you had them you would earn a modicum of respect from your immediate peers, trade mags and online forums. None of these things has an immediate bearing on the quality of your audience's live experience.

Now if none of this matters to you because you by contrast to our 'hack' are 'there' technically, rocking the lights every weekend and knee deep in accolades. Congratulations! And, here's your 'Participant' ribbon.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:31 am

Sales Dude McBoob wrote:Everyone, everyone, RELAX!

Take a deep breath.

Now turn your attention to this:
http://kittywigs.com/wigindex.html

what kind of fucking milli vanilli bullshit is this??!!??! it's not even their real hair!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:46 am

nebulae wrote:
Sales Dude McBoob wrote:Everyone, everyone, RELAX!

Take a deep breath.

Now turn your attention to this:
http://kittywigs.com/wigindex.html
what kind of fucking milli vanilli bullshit is this??!!??! it's not even their real hair!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude, don't let the bag out on this one. Those are respected cats on the scene.

gjm · Post by **gjm** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:46 am

I have found this thread really interesting. Lots of different view points. The unifying thing though is that lots of people draw their lines in the sand in different places when you are trying to decide when an artist is an artist. Its the same as wearing speedo's at the beach for swimming but having them viewed as undies in a different place or situation. In fact, if one of the previous posts suggest, the privalidge of calling yourself an artist is to have the freedom to define your own expeience and express that as you see fit. When do real tits (breasts) become fake tits when they are surgically enhanced? Is it the quantity of silicon? Some would argue that it dosen't matter how much fake matter there is inside the boob because the desired effect was achieved, exstatic audience participation, appreciation and approval!

As a person who plays an actual musical instrument (6 strings), playing live means that I am actually playing the instrument. I am open to making mistakes. Thats part of the risk of playing live. Thats the point. Thats why I rehearse. that gives people the ability to make judgements as to my level of skill and musicianship. I simple can't get away with miming the song with a cd in the back ground. Also, if I can't dance while I play, then I don't dance. Seems simple.

The blurring of the lines seems to suggest that within the discipline of creating and performing electronic music, there is little agreement as to what the artist is. Is it the software operator (at one end of the scale) or the person with the gift to move the audience, sense the people and the mood, and with his or her ability take the crowd where the artist wants to go (other end of the scale). It seems like it's the ones who put the big big efforts into the performance, a sense of work, risk, even improvisation that are feeling a bit pissed.

The fact of the matter is that there are a very large numbers of fake breasts around. They do the job for those who have them and they get the desired effect for those who notice them. The stigma is all but gone in these days of big business in the cosmetic surgery industry. Technology has changed the way that people view beauty, what's natural and good. And yes, its all still subjective.

The best thing for COSM to do it work on his own game. Define who he is. If you go to his web site he is pretty clear on what he does and why. It's not about wether others are fake or not, its about what he decides is an act of integrity. He shouldn't waste his time worrying about other peoples gigs. By working on his own game then perhaps the real artist will show up, and maybe in time a brilliant one. Live up to your own expectations, set the pace and don't look back.

jeskola · Post by **jeskola** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:49 am

Name and shame... the guys probably getting 2 or 3k a show 2 or 3 times a week. Someone somewhere is going to pay through the nose for fuck all.