New Aussie PM ratifies Kyoto

[Tone Deft]

I see global warming and cooling every day.

When the sun comes up, the earth gets warmer. When the sun goes down the earth gets cooler.

That has to be the most retarded thing I have ever read.

true dat.


interesting talk on geo-engineering to help this problem.
http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/192

[basetwo]

OK, good.

Now care to say WHY you think it's "retarded"? Your first attempt didn't really refute the assertions.

Does the earth cool and warm every day or not?

The point is that everyone is bowing to the almighty "Global Warming" religion and attributing it to everything under the sun (no pun intended.)

While the earth does warm and cool, and goes through warmer and cooler cycles spanning many decades, the current pollution levels have nothing to do with it. It's been happening since the dawn of time.

I'm all for curbing pollution, but this rhetoric that we have to stop it or we'll all burn up is pure fantasy.

So let's drop the global warming crap and curb air pollution on the basis of respiratory problems increasing or something that actually has some merit. I know that that's not nearly sensational enough to get people stirred up, though.

[forge]

I'm all for curbing pollution, but this rhetoric that we have to stop it or we'll all burn up is pure fantasy.
.

I take it you're a climatologist? if you can be so confident of that...

[Tone Deft]

I'm all for curbing pollution, but this rhetoric that we have to stop it or we'll all burn up is pure fantasy.
.

I take it you're a climatologist? if you can be so confident of that...

I think he's this guy:

[adventurepants_]

OK, good.

Now care to say WHY you think it's "retarded"? Your first attempt didn't really refute the assertions.

Does the earth cool and warm every day or not?

sure does, whats your point?

The point is that everyone is bowing to the almighty "Global Warming" religion and attributing it to everything under the sun (no pun intended.)

who is this everyone? what is being attributed to global warming, that shouldnt be, in your learned opinion?

While the earth does warm and cool, and goes through warmer and cooler cycles spanning many decades, the current pollution levels have nothing to do with it. It's been happening since the dawn of time.

and the trends of the last 50 years are at odds with those cycles, thats why its being looked at.

I'm all for curbing pollution, but this rhetoric that we have to stop it or we'll all burn up is pure fantasy.

some might burn, others may freeze, still others may starve to death from drought, some may drown due to rising sea levels in the pacific.

So let's drop the global warming crap and curb air pollution on the basis of respiratory problems increasing or something that actually has some merit. I know that that's not nearly sensational enough to get people stirred up, though.

Isnt this the issue. If none of what we are seeing is man made then theres no problem is there? We spend some time and money investigating it, find theres no problem and move on. Are you saying we should just ignore the evidence we have at the moment, and wait for the possibility of environmental collapse? isnt the merest possibility of that happening worth investigating?

[forge]

.....some may drown due to rising sea levels in the pacific.

there is an atoll near borneo where the inhabitants have had to leave their lush paradise island that they have been living on for a long time because the sea levels have already risen to an extent that the island is now mostly underwater and what's left is swamp

[udp]

What, no response to my quest for proactive adaption? OK, here it is, I'll say it.
The PRE-supposition the global warming is humanly produced is the greatest hoax ever portrayed on mankind. It is anthropocentric deduction, and the essence of hubris. It's all about money, not about science.

[glu]

I'm an environmentalist. A real one, rather than some yuppie living in a big ass house with "Kyoto" bumperstickers on each of his two cars, who takes a half a dozen trans-atlantic flights for "eco-tourism".

While I totally agree with the sentiment, being a real one [environmentalist], do you support wars that cause impoverished nations to shell out their GNP to repay giant foreign debt?

Many of these third world countries encourage timber harvesting and intensive agricultural, like those in Sub-Saharan Africa. These countries have to dish out 58% their GNP to pay foreign debt (which can be more than 4 times their GNP).

War and conservationism don't mix for several other reasons though.

[Noel]

...Does the earth cool and warm every day or not?...

No it doesn't.

The part thats facing the sun gets warmer the part that's pointing away gets cooler. On average it stays about the same (except for the underlying trend of global warming)

..The PRE-supposition the global warming is humanly produced is the greatest hoax ever portrayed on mankind. It is anthropocentric deduction, and the essence of hubris...

So who is behind this hoax? some people will see any crisis as an opportunity to make money but that doesn't mean there is some kind of conspiracy or that the crisis is not real.

The only Hubris I see is people like you thinking they know better than the great majority of scientists with expert knowlege. If anything the vested interest is on the side of people who are denying the existance of the problem.

[andydes]

Pretty much exactly what I was about to say. On both points.

We've been warned about the effects of global warming for decades. Long before there was any money in it, and only scientists and hippys were interested.

Even the most sceptical climatologist will now tell you that the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere will raise the earths temperature and that we are responsible for releasing the CO2. Their only argunment is there may be other factors contributing as well and we are not the primary reason.

At the moment, almost every scientist studying this is saying we are the main, if not the only contributing factor.

Granted, there is always the chance, it's too late to stop a runaway effect, in which case, we'll also need to put resources into dealing with the damage. The only real question, is how much effort goes into preventing the problem compared to dealing with it.

[udp]

..The PRE-supposition the global warming is humanly produced is the greatest hoax ever portrayed on mankind. It is anthropocentric deduction, and the essence of hubris...

So who is behind this hoax? some people will see any crisis as an opportunity to make money but that doesn't mean there is some kind of conspiracy or that the crisis is not real.

The only Hubris I see is people like you thinking they know better than the great majority of scientists with expert knowlege. If anything the vested interest is on the side of people who are denying the existance of the problem.

The majority of scientists said the Sun revolved around the Earth. Some of the Earth's very top climatologists are saying it's a hoax. These guys are the cream of the cream, yet they are ignored. Some quite the IPCC and sued to have their name removed from the study, because their voice wasn't being heard. There is only one opinion on "global warming" allowed and the rest are encouraged or threatened to shut up. The people behind the hoax are people like Al Gore who are looking to make a quick million or two, convincing people that there is a real threat. Here's the 20/20 article that explains it best.

http://www.globalwarming.org/node/1200

[Noel]

...The majority of scientists said the Sun revolved around the Earth...

Yes, people used to believe the earth was flat and the sun revolved around it, but this view came from the church and natural philosophers, not from scientists. I'll think you will find that it was the efforts of scientists, and the emergence of the scientific methodology, that managed to overturn this view.

...There is only one opinion on "global warming" allowed and the rest are encouraged or threatened to shut up.

If they are so oppressed how come channel 4 screened the garbage documentary 'The Great Global Warming Swindle’. Every day I come accross the opinions of climate scheptics. It's akin to the way right wing groups always claim that thier opinions are being suppressed at every opportunity.

Maybe you are refering to the likes of Martin Livermoor and his so called Scientific Alliance which has closer relationships with the US PR and lobying groups than it does to any recognised scientific body.

I could go on but you can do the research for yourself if you're not to lazy. If you look into the backgrounds and motivations of the climate sceptics you will find they are mostly in the pay of organisations with a vested interest in the status quo.

I had a look at the web site you mentioned and all I can see is industrialists and funding bodies whining about how much it will cost.

[andydes]

Indeed most of the articles posted on that site talk about things like how different countries are pushing for different methods of controlling emittions, how the developing world emittions will outstrip any cuts we make, the negative impact of preventing pollution, how to overcome obsticles to addapting new technologies, etc.

Mostly looked fairly reasonable, to be honest.

There was one report on the recent lack of sun spot activity and another saying that there were some exaggerated claims in Al Gore's film. But that was about it

I didn't see anything which even suggested there was some conspiracy amongst scientists or mention any opposing theories to explain climate change.

[udp]

I agree that the globalwarming.org web site IS quite reasonable in its approach. The video I eluded to is here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO9laiUXS1o,
not at the previous link. Look, get upset because proponents of "global warming" never answer my questions and never question the methodology of the reports put forth. The guys in the video are top experts in climatology. They're the "teachers" not the "students". I happen to think they make some very good points.

[Noel]

I agree that the globalwarming.org web site IS quite reasonable in its approach. The video I eluded to is here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO9laiUXS1o,
not at the previous link. Look, get upset because proponents of "global warming" never answer my questions and never question the methodology of the reports put forth. The guys in the video are top experts in climatology. They're the "teachers" not the "students". I happen to think they make some very good points.

I'm quite happy to accept that not all scientists agree on the subject of climate change, but that hardly justifies the conclusion that man made climate change is a hoax and that somehow the vast majority of scientists that support the theory have somehow been duped or are involved in some huge $ funded conspiracy.

Maybe the contrarians are right and there really isn't a problem, if so they can all have a good laugh and say "I told you so". on the other hand if the scientific consensus is correct and we don't take action now then we are fucked. Faced with hundreds if not thousands of scientists on one side of the argument and a handfull on the other I know which side I'm going with.

Also trying to discredit people on the grounds that they are members of Green Peace is just stupid. What does GreenPeace have to gain by spreading false information.