read ACID loop markers (transients)

speedbird · Post by **speedbird** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:54 am

I have 250GB of ACID loops from Sony. Unfortunately most of them don't play the right way in Live.

Why can't you make Live compatible with ACID loops?

Since Sonar could pull it off it must be possible for Ableton.

Which means transients can be before and after the grid/warp markers.

At the moment when a transient comes early (before the beatmarker) and you play it slower than the original tempo it get's not played anymore. If it happens to be a kick drum you don't hear it.
The only solution is to move the marker on the transient, but then you change the groove, because now it's being played 'on the beat' instead of early.

Winterpark · Post by **Winterpark** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:25 am

you do know can can move the starting point don't you?

(line with arrow on it)

speedbird · Post by **speedbird** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:40 am

this has nothing to to with what I mean.

Imagine that the kick on bar/grid marker 1.2.3 comes a bit early. And I want to keep the groove like that.
The moment I make a warp marker at 1.2.3 and move it 'on' the kick it's not the same groove anymore.
If I don't move it, the transient gets lost when playing the loop faster than the original tempo.

What ACID-loops do is they have special markers to show transients that are early or late WITHOUT moving them, and WITHOUT changing the groove.
It's just markers like in Recycle. To tell the stretch algorithm where the important bits are. Not to confuse with warp-markers in Live which tell you at what position certain elements of the loop are in the song.

Is there anybody out there who understands what I mean??

If you have loops that have a human feel, like a real drummer there will be hits that are early and some of them late.
I DON'T want to quantize the groove. I want to retain the feeling.
But Live's stretch algorithm will occasionally not play early transients (peaks that occure before the marker) at all when you change the tempo.

The sound quality suffers terribly when transients are not on the grid/warp markers.

ACID loops have markers for these early and late transients that are off the grid. So the stretch algorithm plays them correct.

If you move the warp-markers in Live on to the transients you change the groove and that is not desireable for me (although can be handy on other occasions).

Got it?

bensuthers · Post by **bensuthers** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:06 am

sounds like you should keep using acid.

Winterpark · Post by **Winterpark** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:25 am

speedbird wrote:this has nothing to to with what I mean.

Imagine that the kick on bar/grid marker 1.2.3 comes a bit early. And I want to keep the groove like that.
The moment I make a warp marker at 1.2.3 and move it 'on' the kick it's not the same groove anymore.
If I don't move it, the transient gets lost when playing the loop faster than the original tempo.

What ACID-loops do is they have special markers to show transients that are early or late WITHOUT moving them, and WITHOUT changing the groove.
It's just markers like in Recycle. To tell the stretch algorithm where the important bits are. Not to confuse with warp-markers in Live which tell you at what position certain elements of the loop are in the song.

Is there anybody out there who understands what I mean??

If you have loops that have a human feel, like a real drummer there will be hits that are early and some of them late.
I DON'T want to quantize the groove. I want to retain the feeling.
But Live's stretch algorithm will occasionally not play early transients (peaks that occure before the marker) at all when you change the tempo.

The sound quality suffers terribly when transients are not on the grid/warp markers.

ACID loops have markers for these early and late transients that are off the grid. So the stretch algorithm plays them correct.

If you move the warp-markers in Live on to the transients you change the groove and that is not desireable for me (although can be handy on other occasions).

Got it?

ok... firstly chill out.

2ndly, i do understand what you are on about. (BTW i teach ACID to primary school children)

3rdy, i wasn't talking about warp markers, i was refering to the "loop offset" marker. Page 100 of the pdf manual

good luck with it.

-am

speedbird · Post by **speedbird** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:55 am

-am

no offence but I really don't know what 'loop offset' markers have to do with my problem.

And no I can't use Acid, becauseI need Rewire to slave it to Neundo2.

anyway....

have a nice Sunday

coldmachine · Post by **coldmachine** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:27 am

I've also noticed that and the fact the Live doesnt tempo match/ stretch anywhere near as well as Acid. I hope its improved as I could then dump Acid, but at the moment I cant. I rewire them and allow acid to take all loop dutied and then export. I find it fairly quick now.