Choosing a MIDI foot controller

the Fearsome Fearful · Post by **the Fearsome Fearful** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:57 am

lunabass wrote:
7G wrote:BEHRINGER FCB 1010 (great community)
which community are you talking about, the unofficial behringer users forum?...

The FCB 1010 users group

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/fcb1010/

lunabass · Post by **lunabass** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:09 am

^ thanks

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:29 am

For those who don't know, the FC-300 offers 4 different modes. You can add upto 6 external control pedals or 3 expression pedals in any combination (each expression pedal uses 2 control pedal inputs). Each of the following Modes can also set up these external pedals. Switching between Modes can be done by three different means, via pressing of the Mode button by hands, via pressing the Up/Down pedals at once via foot and via a dedicated external pedal that uses its own input connector.

1. Standard/Program Change Mode

The Up/Down (go up/down in steps of 5 or 10, whatever you prefer) and the five Number pedals will change programs, while the two CTL pedals and the expression pedals (+ their underlying switches) are still useable as CC/control pedals.

2. Control/CC Mode

You can save and use upto 5 complete sets of pedal settings in this mode.

All pedals send CC messages with the Up/Down pedal used to switch between 2 banks (low/high) for the number pedals. Since all number pedals have two LEDs (red/green) and each bank uses a different colour you can switch on a latch effect on one bank then switch to the other bank and still see the status of your latch pedal. Each pedal can be either latch or switch and has a status LED to show if it's on or off in Latch mode.

3. Sysex Mode

All pedals send Sysex, nothing to configure here. f you can program something in Sysex then you can control every single aspect of the FC-300 downto a single Pixel of the LCD. It's fully documented in the appendix of manual (english only).

4. Patch Mode

You can save and use upto 100 patches/Midi streams which are called upon just like you would switch programs in Program Change Mode. Each Patch can hold a Midi stream of upto 500 bytes (total for all patches 8kb) and can hold a completely user definable order of Midi events.

Each Patch consists of a group/stream of Midi events (can also be just one single Midi event/message). These include CC, Program Change, Note On/Off, Channel Pressure (Aftertouch), Polyphonic Key Pressure (Aftertouch), Pitch Bend, Realtime Events (Midi Start/Stop/Continue) and Sysex! Sysex can either be any user-defined Sysex stream or chosen from a list of templates that include things like MMC Play/Stop/Reset and such. Like I said before, these are combinable in any user-definable order.

You can give each Patch its own name which shows up on the LCD along with the number on the digit-display. No more remembering numbers!

Patch ON Stream: Group of Midi events that is send upon calling up a Patch/pressing the pedal.

Patch OFF Stream: Group of Midi events that is send upon calling another patch/releasing the pedal. Including a "Timing" parameter for sending the OFF stream.

CTL1,2 ON/OFF Streams: Same for the two control-pedals saved individually for each patch.

AMP CONTROL: Switch-Status of the amp control connectors. These can switch guitar amps via a standard stereo cable individually for each Patch.

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:33 pm

It is the case that the FC-300 is twice the price of the FCB-1010, if you feel the need to do a considerable amount of fancy stuff with your feet, then maybe it's worthwhile, otherwise maybe no.

Also, fwiw, it grates on me that an $150-200 price range DAW foot controller geared towards something other than guitar amp/effect control hasn't happened (where the Abes could have it premapped a'la other controllers).

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:56 pm

Yes, I should mention that I am also playing guitar/bass, so for me a good foot controller was vital. And that plastic parts of the Behringer being broken in the shop (after hundreds of kids stombing on it, I guess) was just another point speaking for the more sturdy build FC-300.

arkoenig · Post by **arkoenig** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:24 pm

dj superflat wrote:i've notice no delay with the yamaha (i use it for live and/or mobius), and you can set the buttons to toggle (maybe i'm misunderstanding the prior post). you can actually program far more than i expected into the pedal.

Apparently some other disagree about the delay. Please see http://loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/20 ... 00491.html

arkoenig · Post by **arkoenig** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:08 pm

mikemc wrote:Also, fwiw, it grates on me that an $150-200 price range DAW foot controller geared towards something other than guitar amp/effect control hasn't happened (where the Abes could have it premapped a'la other controllers).

What would you like a foot controller to do that the FC-300 doesn't?

(I'm curious to know whether it can mix its expression-pedal outputs into the same MIDI stream as another device connected to it)

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:35 pm

arkoenig wrote:What would you like a foot controller to do that the FC-300 doesn't?

I think he means "in the price range" of 150$ to 200$. The FC-300 costs upto 300$.

(I'm curious to know whether it can mix its expression-pedal outputs into the same MIDI stream as another device connected to it)

I don't think so.

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:02 pm

Timur wrote:
arkoenig wrote:What would you like a foot controller to do that the FC-300 doesn't?
I think he means "in the price range" of 150$ to 200$. The FC-300 costs upto 300$.

Yes, that's what I meant. Mainly what a foot controller useful with Live should have at least a "Looper" mode a "Remote Transport Control" mode, and a "Free progammable mode" (basically what they all are when you read the "advanced" section of the manual).

The looper mode allows you to select active track (one exp pedal), arm/disarm (button), begin record/end record(button), select scene (another exp pedal), launch scene (button). The RTC mode allows you to do more elaborate things, scrubbing for example.

Mr_You · Post by **Mr_You** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:16 pm

*deleted*

darkenedsoul · Post by **darkenedsoul** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:27 pm

I have the FCB1010 but use it with my synthesizer for changing patches in songs/between songs. I can also use it with my V-Amp 2 Pod by Behringer for guitar amp modeling, etc.

I don't know what the Roland looks like compared to the 1010 so I can't do any comparison with regards to number of banks/patches you could cycle through or setting up the switches for doing various stuff with Live. i am sure you can get it to do most of what you'd want. Buy the used one from the guy in the thread!

It works for me but not in the same context (yet) with regards to Live.

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:11 pm

FC-300: 7 switches + 2 expression switches + Up + Down = 9 switches + 2 expression pedals. 550 x 220 x 76 mm, 5.2 kg. External power supply 9V + batteries

FCB1010: 10 switches + Up + Down = 12 switches + 2 expression pedals. 687 x 221 x 60 mm, 3.5 kg. Internal power supply.

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:43 pm

here was the big deal for me: the yamaha has 10 buttons, one expression pedal, plus inputs for 4 more of either (and it's only about $5-10 for an extra button or pedal). so i have 15 controls available without changing banks, which i really need. if you don't need that much, or can stand to change banks, then not a concern. otherwise, look at the yamaha (as noted, some folk have seemingly run into some delay with the yamaha, others (including me) have not).

no love for the ground control pro here?

arkoenig · Post by **arkoenig** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:50 pm

I have to say that an internal power supply seems like a win here.

But the real question for me is whether I can plug my WX-5 into it and set one of the expression pedals to add CC#4 to the MIDI stream as it comes through.

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:08 am

As a guitar player I prefer the external 9V solution as this means less thick cables for me, because I can power all my 9V floor-effects from one supply then.

The Behringer offer:

MIDI MERGE function allows SOFT THROUGH and merging controller and input data.

No idea about the Yamaha, cause I don't know it. Thinking about an additional external 6 switches/3 expression pedals I guess the FC is gonna win the maximum number of stomps contest.

But using so many external stomps is inconvinient, there are other units out there that offer lots of stomps in one case if you need so many.

Choosing a MIDI foot controller

Re: Choosing a MIDI foot controller