Drum Machines

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
henrico
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Drum Machines

Post by henrico » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:21 am

Yo,

I'm thinking of buying Live 7 and the drum machines add-on looks really cool to me. At present I have some samples of the linndrum and dmx (which are a bit rubbish) and a real 909/707.

Are the drum machines multisampled so when you fiddle with, say, the tone nob on the 909, it will trigger a different sample, or is there just a filter on the sound?

Just need to know if it's worth buying, if it's just 16 samples with filters then probably not worth it.

Thanks ;)

freshdrumma
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Post by freshdrumma » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:44 am

well, when you`ll sell your real machines give me a shout!

henrico
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Post by henrico » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:03 am

To be honest mate, if I could find some samples that could replace them I would. As it is, nothing quite beats them yet.

But that's why I'm looking into the Drum Machines in Ableton...

micah frank
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Re: Drum Machines

Post by micah frank » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:11 pm

henrico wrote:Yo,

Are the drum machines multisampled so when you fiddle with, say, the tone nob on the 909, it will trigger a different sample, or is there just a filter on the sound?

Just need to know if it's worth buying, if it's just 16 samples with filters then probably not worth it.

Thanks ;)
the 808 kick drum is in itself over 200-something samples :D

henrico
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Post by henrico » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:44 pm

Yowzer, it sounds pretty deep. Maybe I will get it. Some of the comments have put me off though about ease of use.

ze2be
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Re: Drum Machines

Post by ze2be » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:49 pm

micah frank wrote: the 808 kick drum is in itself over 200-something samples :D
wooh, nice!

I feel though that most work has been put into the 808 and 909 right? + maybe the 606. The other ones sounds perhaps a bit dull..


What would be so much more exiting would be if you could invent some new drum machines you know.. Mix and match cool high quality/multi layered drums into theemes.
Some of the old drum machines sound dull, and for us old timers were a bit tired of that same old thing..

But a good ride, punchy crashes, crispy hats and so on is always welcome! Could be fun also to do effects triggered by velocity, for more expresion.

Im still in demo mode, but will definitly build my own by mix and match when I get going with the upgrade!

henrico
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Post by henrico » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:59 pm

True, I'm looking for good Linndrum samples and Dmx samples too, how many per voice do they have?

Tarekith
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Post by Tarekith » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:28 pm

I think the samples themselves are very well done, though each drum machine has only 16 sounds per kit. You get some flexibility with how you can tweak each kit, but of course nowhere near what you'd get with the orginals. There's a couple things I don't like about drum machines though:

- The layout. Ableton chose to use the GM mapping standard to layout thier kits in relation to midi notes. Not a bad choice, except that the 16 drum sounds are now not in one bank of 4x4 pads on the drum grid as you would think would be obvious. So you need to scroll the drum rack a lot to get access to all the sounds. Why oh why could they not have left the note mapping the same, and just gone the MPC route where you can choose which type drum sound is assigned to each pad for all kits? You can drag the sounds all into one bank of pads however, but that leads to...

- The really funky (and IMO overly-complicated) routing in each drum rack. A few people including myself have been scratching our heads trying to figure out how Ableton has set up the note triggering in some kits. They've tried to explain, but I don't get it yet, and neither do the PureMagnetik folks like Micah who actually created the kits! Also, each drum sound is deeply nested in multiple instrument racks, mostly it appears to make things "easier" for the users by assigning some commands to the macro knobs. Downside is that if you don't want to tweak what's assigned to those knobs, it's lots and lots of horizontal scrolling trying to adjust things.

I think Drum Machines are ok if you just want to do some simple midi sequencing in Clip view without bothering too much with the actual Drum Rack layout and parameters. As part of the suite, probably a good deal, but if you're thinking of getting them on their own to replace your hardware, I'd maybe think twice.

If nothing else, there's PLENTY of free online samples you can already download of all these drum machines (and MANY more), so it wouldn't be too hard to just create your own drum racks the way you want them laid out. Do a search here for "drum machines" and you'll likely get plenty of links to those (completely legit) sites.

Just my $.02 though.

R.J.Dubya
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Post by R.J.Dubya » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:38 pm

I also find that there isn't that much change in the sound for some drums hits when the macros are adjusted. Like kick tone, pitch etc. I remember the real ones, and rebirth etc. having more of a sonic range in their parameters.
Tarekith wrote:You can drag the sounds all into one bank of pads however, but that leads to...


Leads to what?
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andydes
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Post by andydes » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:50 pm

Leads to issues with the funking and overly complicated routing.
Well, I think that's what he meant.

So it's not easy to mix and match drums to make your own kit in drum machines then? Easier just to start from scratch?

R.J.Dubya
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Post by R.J.Dubya » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:55 pm

andydes wrote:Leads to issues with the funking and overly complicated routing.
Well, I think that's what he meant.

So it's not easy to mix and match drums to make your own kit in drum machines then? Easier just to start from scratch?
Well keep in mind that all the drum hits from drum machines are available as individual hits each in their own racks, so you can make your own drum machine very quickly yourself, still using ableton drum machine sample maps.
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Tarekith
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Post by Tarekith » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:48 pm

R.J.Dubya wrote: Well keep in mind that all the drum hits from drum machines are available as individual hits each in their own racks, so you can make your own drum machine very quickly yourself, still using ableton drum machine sample maps.
Yes, just don't try to use hot swap buttons in the drum grid when doing so, that loads the new sound you choose in the browser into it's location from it's respective kit, not the current drum grid location. grrr, bugs.

andydes
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Post by andydes » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:47 pm

Tarekith wrote:
R.J.Dubya wrote: Well keep in mind that all the drum hits from drum machines are available as individual hits each in their own racks, so you can make your own drum machine very quickly yourself, still using ableton drum machine sample maps.
Yes, just don't try to use hot swap buttons in the drum grid when doing so, that loads the new sound you choose in the browser into it's location from it's respective kit, not the current drum grid location. grrr, bugs.
Ew, that's a bit shite.

But can you load a multisampled drum (ie. sub rack) into an empty or existing slot on the drum rack?

Does that make sense?

Tarekith
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Post by Tarekith » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:49 pm

I haven't tried yet, sorry.

andydes
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Post by andydes » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:56 pm

Oh well, pretty set on getting the suite now anyway. So I can always find out for myself. Thanks.

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