ot: personal question

[Tone Deft]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCWw6W5NEa8 <--- a little monty python

[stonee]

Instead to fight symptoms with pharmaceutica, you should find the reason for the depression.

While I agree, this process is done better with the help of trained professionals - AND it may turn out to be hereditary (sp?) dispositions towards low serotonin levels - in other words: not something that can be overcome by thought.

My main gripe with peoples approach to depression is the "suck it up" and "think positive" responses. Even worse is the "exersise a lot" responses, which are only valid with mild depression, since daily exersise can be an insurmountable task, if you are sufforing from a depression.

this is exactly the kind of point im trying to get at.
depression is NOT about feeling sorry for myself. depression is one of the most common, and most complex disorders that exists.

once again,

I AM NOT SAD

I don't need to figure out what is wrong in my life, i don't need to find a source of depression, because there is none. everything runs at random for me.

alot of my strongest emotional reactions have no link to life events.

" oh look a kitten! wow, I feel like shit all of a sudden"
" oh wow, my house is on fire. I'm hungry"

[ThrowAway]

Instead to fight symptoms with pharmaceutica, you should find the reason for the depression.

While I agree, this process is done better with the help of trained professionals - AND it may turn out to be hereditary (sp?) dispositions towards low serotonin levels - in other words: not something that can be overcome by thought.

My main gripe with peoples approach to depression is the "suck it up" and "think positive" responses. Even worse is the "exersise a lot" responses, which are only valid with mild depression, since daily exersise can be an insurmountable task, if you are sufforing from a depression.

this is exactly the kind of point im trying to get at.
depression is NOT about feeling sorry for myself. depression is one of the most common, and most complex disorders that exists.


once again,

I AM NOT SAD

I don't need to figure out what is wrong in my life, i don't need to find a source of depression, because there is none. everything runs at random for me.

alot of my strongest emotional reactions have no link to life events.

" oh look a kitten! wow, I feel like shit all of a sudden"
" oh wow, my house is on fire. I'm hungry"

good luck man.

Back in my highschool days I had a lot of thought processes simlar to what you just said, I always attributed it to overuse of X(I was pretty bad at times). I dont get those any more but I do get "pent up" sometimes, anger or irrtaition out of now where. Its cool cause I never act on it though and Im always aware of it... but I have a realease....Boxing. that definately helps me release all kinds of emotions and levels me out.

[koranek]

First of all I'm a clinical counselor for a living, but I'm not your counselor, so we're just talking, OK?

The most common complaint that a psychiatrist I know sees is fatigue. No matter what someone comes in with, fatigue is a part of it. As simple as it may seem, pay more attention to your sleep. "Sleep hygiene" involves getting adequate sleep in a consistent way. Most people don't sleep enough, or have erratic sleep, such as good sleep during the week, and horrible sleep during the weekends.

Depression has several kinds of symptoms associated with it. One of them is the heaviness you describe. Also a kind of blahness. Sadness does not need to be present. Sometimes there is a loss of all emotions, a flatness. Also loss of interest or pleasure in things that you used to like. And even if you feel this way doesn't mean necessarily that you are depressed. A lot depends on how much and for how long you feel this way.

Sometimes depression has a obvious cause, whether a lifestyle issue, a set of circumstances, or habitual ways of thinking about things. Sometimes it's just like catching the flu.

There is also a strong coincidence of depression with artistic personality.

Depression runs on a spectrum that on one end is just a vague dissatisfaction with not very much loss of functioning to the other end where the person is pretty much a zombie that can't function at all and may wish that life would end. You'll have to decide where you fit into this scale, but you don't seem to be an extra for the night of the living dead.

Most of the suggestions posted here are legitimate. Diet, exercise, relationships, thinking patterns, recreational drugs all play a role in depression. Just realize that not everything works for everyone, and most of these things will not work for serious depression.

The most interesting thing you stated on a clinical level is what might be called "inappropriate or disconnected emotional response." I'd pay attention to that. It's not something serious, but it is unusual. If you decide to ever talk to a counselor, bring that up.

As far as SSRI's, I've seen them change people's lives for the better, and I've seen them screw people up. If you decide to go this route, go see a psychiatrist. This is their specialty. Your results will definitely be affected by who prescribes medications for you. You family practitioner can prescribe these drugs, but it's not their area of expertise.

Finally, consider that maybe nothing's wrong at all. Maybe it's just life.

[lola]

I AM NOT SAD

I don't need to figure out what is wrong in my life, i don't need to find a source of depression, because there is none. everything runs at random for me.

"

Maybe someone already mentioned this, but to be honest i was to lazy to read all the stuff in this topic hehe
But..

first of all i am no doctor.

Maybe before you want to try chemicals, you could try homeopathic stuff.
There are some homeopathic herbs that work ok for some people like:
Hypericum perforatum L. >English St John's wort,
It works for depression and panic attacks and helps you focus more.
**But even homeopathic stuff is not always harmless, you should get good advice how to use them and what consequences they have in combination with other medicine.**


The problem with chemical anti depressants is, that they have to find the one that helps for your kind of depression.
And sometimes it takes a while to see if they have any effects.
So you have to be patient.
An other side is that they are addictive.
I know some people who use them, and for them it works very well, but for the most of them it took a while to find the right ones.
So be aware of that.

Anyway like the person who posted before this post, go see a psychiatrist ask him or her what the pro's and con's are.

[stonee]

First of all I'm a clinical counselor for a living, but I'm not your counselor, so we're just talking, OK?

The most common complaint that a psychiatrist I know sees is fatigue. No matter what someone comes in with, fatigue is a part of it. As simple as it may seem, pay more attention to your sleep. "Sleep hygiene" involves getting adequate sleep in a consistent way. Most people don't sleep enough, or have erratic sleep, such as good sleep during the week, and horrible sleep during the weekends.

Depression has several kinds of symptoms associated with it. One of them is the heaviness you describe. Also a kind of blahness. Sadness does not need to be present. Sometimes there is a loss of all emotions, a flatness. Also loss of interest or pleasure in things that you used to like. And even if you feel this way doesn't mean necessarily that you are depressed. A lot depends on how much and for how long you feel this way.

Sometimes depression has a obvious cause, whether a lifestyle issue, a set of circumstances, or habitual ways of thinking about things. Sometimes it's just like catching the flu.

There is also a strong coincidence of depression with artistic personality.

Depression runs on a spectrum that on one end is just a vague dissatisfaction with not very much loss of functioning to the other end where the person is pretty much a zombie that can't function at all and may wish that life would end. You'll have to decide where you fit into this scale, but you don't seem to be an extra for the night of the living dead.

Most of the suggestions posted here are legitimate. Diet, exercise, relationships, thinking patterns, recreational drugs all play a role in depression. Just realize that not everything works for everyone, and most of these things will not work for serious depression.

The most interesting thing you stated on a clinical level is what might be called "inappropriate or disconnected emotional response." I'd pay attention to that. It's not something serious, but it is unusual. If you decide to ever talk to a counselor, bring that up.

As far as SSRI's, I've seen them change people's lives for the better, and I've seen them screw people up. If you decide to go this route, go see a psychiatrist. This is their specialty. Your results will definitely be affected by who prescribes medications for you. You family practitioner can prescribe these drugs, but it's not their area of expertise.

Finally, consider that maybe nothing's wrong at all. Maybe it's just life.

wow thanks! solid answer!

[gjm]

To answer your specific question about experiences with AD's, mine was fantastic! One and a half years on prozac. I didn't piss purple or have my dick fall off. I was an utter pile of shit when I started on my path to managing my wellness. I am now fully functioning as a parent, husband, business owner and creative type, and importantly I can execise my critical thinking skills. Along with my 'team' (wife and shrink) prozac saved the day! BUT PAY ATTENTION AD's will always be a partner with other players that will move someone towards managing their wellness. My time on prozac would be summed up as a 'level ride.' No instant results, just a leveling out in terms of moods, feelings etc. But I worked hard on reducing stress, looking at diet, exercise, hanging out with friends and eliminating the toxic waste, mostly created by people. I quite school, quite my job, dumped a bunch of 'crazy making people' took up sailing (could have been golf etc) read etc. My Doc told me when to stop taking prozac. I continued to see him weekly for six months after this just to make sure, two years in total. I was well looked after by the psychiatrist and my wife.

Incidently, feeling sad is not a neccesary symptom of depression. In some cases its the lack of ability to feel sad that alerts people to imbalance. For me, it was the feelings of hoplessness with my efforts in life and ultimatly the thoughts of suicide that alerted the doctor I saw. I was not able to 'self examine' my situation accuratly. Thats why the advice to consult someone outside your system is very good.

Actually, the thing I am uncomfortable about when hearing people talk about depression is when they claim that they have an accurate view of themselves, that they can sum themselves up objectively. This is why the advice to see someone if you can identify a few symptons is important. Ask around for people who have had positive experiences with depression in your community. Not every doctor is the 'right' doctor for you, but you will eventually find someone that will point you in the right direction. There are good news stories.

For me the hardest step was reaching out the first time. After that it got easier. I am not cured, I just manage it now, drug free. Cheers

[Machinate]

First of all I'm a clinical counselor for a living, but I'm not your counselor, so we're just talking, OK?

thanks for chiming in, very objective thoughts on the matter.

[bazylp]

Same/similar situation/symptoms. Was considering ADs too.

Saw several doctors who gave me conflicting advice. Then saw an holistic parctitioner who gave me a copy of
"Eat, Move and be Healthy" by Paul Chek

Never looked back since.

It's all about balance.

Couldn't agree more with koranek...

koranek wrote

The most common complaint that a psychiatrist I know sees is fatigue. No matter what someone comes in with, fatigue is a part of it. As simple as it may seem, pay more attention to your sleep. "Sleep hygiene" involves getting adequate sleep in a consistent way. Most people don't sleep enough, or have erratic sleep, such as good sleep during the week, and horrible sleep during the weekends.

Off to sleep now.

Nite

[hambone1]

ahem, and sorry if I appear cross... the attitude just gets very tiring at times.

I'm not meaning to piss anyone off.

I can only relate my experiences and feelings, and what works for me, and apparently works for many others, too.

I DO know how debilitating depression and anxiety can be, and how much easier it is to just stay in bed and do nothing. But IMO, digging deep and making an effort ain't easy and may seem like a monumental effort, but it isn't. It's not real. It's just a perception caused by depression. If your legs still work, you CAN get up. You CHOOSE not to.

That's what cognitive behavioral therapy is all about. If you're depressed, you're depressed. IMO, it's a lot easier to learn to deal with the effects rather than the cause.

[Landser]

My main gripe with peoples approach to depression is the "suck it up" and "think positive" responses.

Although i never had a depression, i understand why. If you have nothing that makes you able to think positive, how should you think positive, or if you have no inner force that pushes you out of bed in the morning, how should you find the power to make excercises? For what?

In general i'm convinced, that depressive people usually have lost their roots.
The biochemical aspects that can be identified or are correlated, are only symptoms of the soul, being thirsty and suffering.
Living beings are much more than biochemical machines. We are more than the sum of molecules - 1 people + 1 people is NOT 2 people. And therefore the pharmaceutical point of view with serotonin levels is extremely dangerous, because it reflects only the materialistic calculation of symptoms, but ingores the reasons.

[koranek]

I can appreciate Machinate's thinking about some forms of therapy. I do believe that how we think can affect depression. There are forms of habitual negative self talk that worsen depression. Identifying and actively working on these thought patterns can improve symptoms dramatically.

That said, there's a lot of nonsense around also. In my opinion, for every time Dr. Phil is right, he's wrong another 100 times. There are depressed people that don't respond very well to this kind of therapy, and in that case you are just punishing a person. Telling someone to cheer up when they are ready to jump off the roof will probably give them another reason to jump.

I sometimes give my clients an exercise. I tell them to set a timer to go off every minute and for the next week every minute of every day they should say to themselves "I hate everything, life sucks, I hate myself, and it will never get better."

You should see the looks I get, but it makes my point.

Then I tell them, "OK, then let's change it so that every minute of every day tell yourself that 'Things aren't that bad, in fact they are OK. I'm not so bad, not perfect, but good enough. I have good days and bad days. That's the way it should be.' Don't worry if you even believe it."

It's not magic, it won't work for everyone or every situation, but it's real.