PC or MAC

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
forge
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Post by forge » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:41 pm

zappen wrote:
Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:Never thought I'd get drawn into this but...
zappen wrote:ditch apple, those ".mac" fanboys can't shutup...
Actually everyone speaking for Mac in this thread are rather balanced in their pros and cons. Now I guess this statement makes me a ".mac fanboy". :? 8O Go figure.

-M
if 5-6 posts with just ".mac" in the first page are balanced for you, in their pros and cons (wich?), then it's balanced also my post.

it looks like those ".mac" users love to act all unite as photocopies, but without arguments.. it's quite spam frankly
8O :?

strange fellow

robbmasters
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Post by robbmasters » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:53 pm

No, I have to agree with Zappen. Just posting "Mac" (or "PC") with no rationale, and apparently no consideration of the original poster's specific requirements, makes the posters look like they don't know even know what the pros and cons are, but are nothing more than "fanboys" of their chosen platforms...

(Edit: Was thinking this was the other Mac vs PC thread. The original poster in this one didn't really have any specific requirements. But the point still stands: without any rationale, a vote for either platform is next to meaningless.)
OS X, Live 9, Microbook II

liveISlife
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Post by liveISlife » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:00 pm

lol, the mac vs. pc question is like discussing money, politics, or religion. we will fight to the death explaining why our view is correct or bash the other dude that doesn't see it out way. but in the end we are just where we started. and its pretty much an individual opinion what you like. there is no "which is better" answer. each has its own pros and cons. like one dude said, live is live is live, so true. so lets just STFU and make music. :D

condra
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Post by condra » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:33 pm

The reason I just wrote "MAC" was because I'm sick to shit of these debates.

From now on I'm not opening any more fucking mac vs pc threads.

Get a mac, get a Dell, or think about getting a mac, convince yourself youre gonna get a mac, then bottle it at the last minute and get something else. I actually dont give a shit. Make up your own fucking mind.

Stupidly, I subscribed to the thread, something which I will be fixing right now.

forge
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Post by forge » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:38 pm

robbmasters wrote:No, I have to agree with Zappen. Just posting "Mac" (or "PC") with no rationale, and apparently no consideration of the original poster's specific requirements, makes the posters look like they don't know even know what the pros and cons are, but are nothing more than "fanboys" of their chosen platforms...

(Edit: Was thinking this was the other Mac vs PC thread. The original poster in this one didn't really have any specific requirements. But the point still stands: without any rationale, a vote for either platform is next to meaningless.)
weren't they just giving their own opinions?

liveISlife
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Post by liveISlife » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:39 pm

condra wrote:The reason I just wrote "MAC" was because I'm sick to shit of these debates.

From now on I'm not opening any more fucking mac vs pc threads.

Get a mac, get a Dell, or think about getting a mac, convince yourself youre gonna get a mac, then bottle it at the last minute and get something else. I actually dont give a shit. Make up your own fucking mind.

Stupidly, I subscribed to the thread, something which I will be fixing right now.
LOL, its cool man. We all make mistakes. I wrote mac too, fuck it. We should have a mac vs. PC war where where we all meet up with our computers and then through them at each other and then see which ones still work. This could be a way to gauge which ones are better imo :D

forge
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Post by forge » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:44 pm

meanwhile....

Image

liveISlife
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Post by liveISlife » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:54 pm

forge wrote:meanwhile....

Image
That he does my friend, that he does.

robbmasters
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Post by robbmasters » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:55 pm

forge wrote:weren't they just giving their own opinions?
Yes - but that's almost worthless without any supporting rationale.

It's not completely worthless, as it does at least suggest that they're happy with their choice. But since we don't even know if they've tried the alternative, let alone whether they've weighed up the pros and cons, that doesn't count for much...

I'm using a Mac now. I'd recommend it to some people. But I'd recommend a PC to others. Horses for courses, pros and cons, and all that....
OS X, Live 9, Microbook II

MIDI_EVIL
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Post by MIDI_EVIL » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:03 pm

Ok, for music production there isn't much in it in terms of hardware. For design/print work, it is said that Mac's are more true to any calibration settings.

I myself use a Mac, from years of having to fiercely maintain my Windows computers, from attacks and spyware/adware.

Now, everyone has their own experiences, but my PowerBook G4 has worked absolutely flawlessly since day 1, and it's 36 months old.

Every Windows computer i've ever used or built, has given me grief hindering productivity, because of Windows.

I hope this gives some indication of the biggest difference between Mac and PC, the OS.

popslut
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Post by popslut » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:08 pm

MIDI_EVIL wrote: I hope this gives some indication of the biggest difference between Mac and PC...
No, because every Windows PC I've built has worked flawlessly from day one and every Mac I've ever used has been a wobbly, unstable, sluggish bag of shit.

I recommend Dr T's on the Amiga.

Tarekith
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Post by Tarekith » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:20 pm

Fine, more detail:

Hardware -

More or less the same as XP (and I really mean all version of Windows
when i say XP) based systems now that Apple is on Intel CPU's, speeds
are basically identical. Macs are still more expensive, but in the
case of my MacBook Pro, I think the added cost was well worth it. The
lighted keyboard and slim aluminum cases make a HUGE difference,
especially as I DJ with mine. Very well cooled for a laptop, looks
bad ass too (there, I said it). You also get some benefit from the
fact that software companies more or less know what the hardware is
always, so they can easily test for compatibility.

It's not all good though, because it also means that you're stuck
dealing with Apple when it comes to hardware. My first two weeks of
the big "switch" were pretty frustrating as I not only leamed a new
OS, but had hardware issues plaguing me too. My first MBP kept giving
me kernal panics (the Mac version of BSOD), and I wasn't sure if it
was me or the computer itself at first. After a week, I took it back
to the store, where of course it worked great. After an hour long
talk with an "Egghead", I finally got them to give me another laptop
on the spot. Got home, and the CPU cooling fan in it was clicking
something awful, and occasionally just stopping! Ungh, back to store,
MBP #3, which I must say has been working flawlessly for 15 months.

3rd Party Software-

This one is kind of a toss. In terms of sheer numbers, there's
obviously way more choices for XP systems. Especially freeware music
apps, and I don't mean ware z. However, on the whole, the Mac
software you do find for free (and there's plenty) seems to be of
higher quality and stability. They feel and look like professional
apps you'd pay for. Some exceptions, just generalizing here. I haven't
run into a situation yet where I was unable to find a free app that
did the same thing as free XP apps I used earlier.

Music software really doesn't seem any more stable though, I never had
many issues on my XP laptop, and I really don't have any issues on the
Mac. There's still buggy stuff, NI's Battery 3 for instance :)
Ableton Live seems fine and stable. A few bugs here and there, but
they affect both systems. The one area where XP wins here is with
wave editors. Windows users by far have better options here, Wavelab
and Soundforge are much better than what's offered on OSX. Peak's ok,
expensive for what it is. DSP Quattro still isn't UB, though it does
work. There's a new one called wave Editor by Audiofile Engineering
that I'm beta-testing, and so far it looks pretty good. A lot like
Photoshop for audio, layers and such. But yeah, I still run Wavelab
in Parallels for all my mastering work, and this is the only XP app I
still use BTW.

Operating System-

No question OSX is way better for me, it's not even close. With XP
systems, you often have the need to browse deep into the OS files and
folders to solve issues, uninstall things, etc. This really isn't the
case with OSX. You see very little of the working of the OS day to
day, as long as you stick to keeping things the way OSX wants you to.
There's lots of cliches, but everything really is easier once you
'unlearn' the Windows way and accept OSX's methods. Everything is
pretty straightforward and yes, it all just works. You never need to
mess with drivers, firewalls, uninstall routines, registry, etc.
Installing a pogram is usually as simple as just dragging it's icon
into your applications folder. Done, it's installed. Drag it to the
trash to uninstall (usually). Back up is a lot easier too, all your
preferences and settings, programs and documents are all easy to find,
and clearly labelled.

The best part is that audio and midi is a core part of the OS, so you
have very well spec'd ways of routing and handling midi and audio
built right in to OSX. High sample rates and bit depths supported
right away, and you can even preview audio files right in Finder
easily (think Windows Explorer).

It's not all roses though, I do find weird bugs in OSX, has a couple
crashes too. Likely due to the apps I was using, but still.
Somethings are frustrating about OSX too, like gettiing used to new
key commands all over again (though this is much better in OSX once
you do), or not being able to just select a file and hit Delete to get
rid of it (it's CMD+Delete in OSX). Little things I may just need to
unlearn still.

Oh one more bonus I almost forgot, the apps that come with OSX are
very, very well done. I made and burned my very first DVD movie, and I never had to look in the help file or the manuals. It
was so easy to do, and looks professional. I had tried tin the past o
do the same thing with XP's Movie Maker, and it was impossible, I gave
up. Garageband is a top app, lots of good sounds in there that a lot
of people ignore for some reason. That's just the tips, it's all of
the same quality.

Having said all that, I CAN see why some people like Windows better.
Some people like to organize their data their way, and really
customize things in the OS. This is far easier in Windows, in OSX
most people are fine just leaving things as they are. Things work
better when you adopt the Apple way and keep all your files in OSX's
folders (like movies, music, pictures, etc). So if you can't adopt to
that, you won't be getting the same experience and Windows will be
better. Also, some people LIKE going deep into the OS to fix things
or tweak them slightly, being techy is fun for them. So again, you'll
never really appreciate the simplicity of OSX, it'll always be
fighting you and frustrating. You can do that stuff in OSX, it's just
not the same in terms of being hands on with the files.

Ok, so there's the unbiased review. To be honest, I'm REALLY glad I
switched. I spend a lot less time maintaining my computer (no more
virus scans, ad ware scans, spyware scans, defragging, etc.) I
literally pretty much come home, tap the keyboard to wake it, then
jump right into Live for the night. That's it, every night. Once in
awhile I might get a message that new software updates are ready, but
that's it in terms of the OS bugging me. 2 months after getting my
MBP, my wife switched as well, and she loves it too. We both won't go
back for home use, though we both use XP at work still.

It's really frustratin at first, it's SOO close to what you know, but
different enough that you're always aware of it. Took me about 2
weeks to really get a feel for everything, maybe a month to be totally
comfortable with all the differences and appreciating them at that
point.

Really not trying to start the whole Mac vs PC, I truly don't believe
one is inherently better than the other. I'm just giving my opinions
and in no way saying 'this is how it is, period'.

liveISlife
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:41 pm
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Post by liveISlife » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:29 pm

Tarekith wrote:Fine, more detail:

Hardware -

More or less the same as XP (and I really mean all version of Windows
when i say XP) based systems now that Apple is on Intel CPU's, speeds
are basically identical. Macs are still more expensive, but in the
case of my MacBook Pro, I think the added cost was well worth it. The
lighted keyboard and slim aluminum cases make a HUGE difference,
especially as I DJ with mine. Very well cooled for a laptop, looks
bad ass too (there, I said it). You also get some benefit from the
fact that software companies more or less know what the hardware is
always, so they can easily test for compatibility.

It's not all good though, because it also means that you're stuck
dealing with Apple when it comes to hardware. My first two weeks of
the big "switch" were pretty frustrating as I not only leamed a new
OS, but had hardware issues plaguing me too. My first MBP kept giving
me kernal panics (the Mac version of BSOD), and I wasn't sure if it
was me or the computer itself at first. After a week, I took it back
to the store, where of course it worked great. After an hour long
talk with an "Egghead", I finally got them to give me another laptop
on the spot. Got home, and the CPU cooling fan in it was clicking
something awful, and occasionally just stopping! Ungh, back to store,
MBP #3, which I must say has been working flawlessly for 15 months.

3rd Party Software-

This one is kind of a toss. In terms of sheer numbers, there's
obviously way more choices for XP systems. Especially freeware music
apps, and I don't mean ware z. However, on the whole, the Mac
software you do find for free (and there's plenty) seems to be of
higher quality and stability. They feel and look like professional
apps you'd pay for. Some exceptions, just generalizing here. I haven't
run into a situation yet where I was unable to find a free app that
did the same thing as free XP apps I used earlier.

Music software really doesn't seem any more stable though, I never had
many issues on my XP laptop, and I really don't have any issues on the
Mac. There's still buggy stuff, NI's Battery 3 for instance :)
Ableton Live seems fine and stable. A few bugs here and there, but
they affect both systems. The one area where XP wins here is with
wave editors. Windows users by far have better options here, Wavelab
and Soundforge are much better than what's offered on OSX. Peak's ok,
expensive for what it is. DSP Quattro still isn't UB, though it does
work. There's a new one called wave Editor by Audiofile Engineering
that I'm beta-testing, and so far it looks pretty good. A lot like
Photoshop for audio, layers and such. But yeah, I still run Wavelab
in Parallels for all my mastering work, and this is the only XP app I
still use BTW.

Operating System-

No question OSX is way better for me, it's not even close. With XP
systems, you often have the need to browse deep into the OS files and
folders to solve issues, uninstall things, etc. This really isn't the
case with OSX. You see very little of the working of the OS day to
day, as long as you stick to keeping things the way OSX wants you to.
There's lots of cliches, but everything really is easier once you
'unlearn' the Windows way and accept OSX's methods. Everything is
pretty straightforward and yes, it all just works. You never need to
mess with drivers, firewalls, uninstall routines, registry, etc.
Installing a pogram is usually as simple as just dragging it's icon
into your applications folder. Done, it's installed. Drag it to the
trash to uninstall (usually). Back up is a lot easier too, all your
preferences and settings, programs and documents are all easy to find,
and clearly labelled.

The best part is that audio and midi is a core part of the OS, so you
have very well spec'd ways of routing and handling midi and audio
built right in to OSX. High sample rates and bit depths supported
right away, and you can even preview audio files right in Finder
easily (think Windows Explorer).

It's not all roses though, I do find weird bugs in OSX, has a couple
crashes too. Likely due to the apps I was using, but still.
Somethings are frustrating about OSX too, like gettiing used to new
key commands all over again (though this is much better in OSX once
you do), or not being able to just select a file and hit Delete to get
rid of it (it's CMD+Delete in OSX). Little things I may just need to
unlearn still.

Oh one more bonus I almost forgot, the apps that come with OSX are
very, very well done. I made and burned my very first DVD movie, and I never had to look in the help file or the manuals. It
was so easy to do, and looks professional. I had tried tin the past o
do the same thing with XP's Movie Maker, and it was impossible, I gave
up. Garageband is a top app, lots of good sounds in there that a lot
of people ignore for some reason. That's just the tips, it's all of
the same quality.

Having said all that, I CAN see why some people like Windows better.
Some people like to organize their data their way, and really
customize things in the OS. This is far easier in Windows, in OSX
most people are fine just leaving things as they are. Things work
better when you adopt the Apple way and keep all your files in OSX's
folders (like movies, music, pictures, etc). So if you can't adopt to
that, you won't be getting the same experience and Windows will be
better. Also, some people LIKE going deep into the OS to fix things
or tweak them slightly, being techy is fun for them. So again, you'll
never really appreciate the simplicity of OSX, it'll always be
fighting you and frustrating. You can do that stuff in OSX, it's just
not the same in terms of being hands on with the files.

Ok, so there's the unbiased review. To be honest, I'm REALLY glad I
switched. I spend a lot less time maintaining my computer (no more
virus scans, ad ware scans, spyware scans, defragging, etc.) I
literally pretty much come home, tap the keyboard to wake it, then
jump right into Live for the night. That's it, every night. Once in
awhile I might get a message that new software updates are ready, but
that's it in terms of the OS bugging me. 2 months after getting my
MBP, my wife switched as well, and she loves it too. We both won't go
back for home use, though we both use XP at work still.

It's really frustratin at first, it's SOO close to what you know, but
different enough that you're always aware of it. Took me about 2
weeks to really get a feel for everything, maybe a month to be totally
comfortable with all the differences and appreciating them at that
point.

Really not trying to start the whole Mac vs PC, I truly don't believe
one is inherently better than the other. I'm just giving my opinions
and in no way saying 'this is how it is, period'.
My dude don't play. +1 to you friend =] Thats really cool u took the time to wright all that man. Thanks.
Last edited by liveISlife on Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

forge
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Location: Queensland, AU
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Post by forge » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:29 pm

Holy shit tarekith - that was 1265 words! 8O

robbmasters
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:37 pm
Location: London, UK.

Post by robbmasters » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:31 pm

Great post.
OS X, Live 9, Microbook II

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