avoiding clipping in live

pip56789 · Post by **pip56789** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 pm

Hi,

I'm mixing many different samples in live, all at different levels. Because Live's vu meter sucks (or at least i think it does), I have difficulty knowing how close i am to clipping. I've tried a few methods, none of which work very well.

The first one is compressing everything individually while pumping up the sliders and pray that the mix will be uniformly loud without clipping. I can't tell: are the compressor/effects pre-fade or post-fade? The second thing i tried was to compress the master. as i said before, neither work really well.

Basically i want to get as close as possible to 0 db without clipping, and i'm not sure how to do this. (is there an actual limiter plugin somewhere?) Suggestions woudl be great!

mX · Post by mX » Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:12 pm

Hi

There are a few nice VST and AU limiters out there that can help. Waves, Prosoniq, Reaktor, Blue, TC Works, Etc..

Another option is to lower the output to around -3.0. Bounce to disk and t

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:35 pm

You could always adjust the clip volume....
That little slider near the transpose button. Live's all about the little things.

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:21 am

for a long time i always put a brickwall limiter on the final output... till i realized it was lopping the top off of the waveforms and making it sound like shit! i've found a much better approach to be losing the analog mentality of obsessing over getting as close to 0db as possible and just mix things a little more quiet. As long as you stay within a few db of 0 you'll still have excellent s/n ratio and you'll retain the full waveforms. Leave the rest to mastering!

olafmol · Post by **olafmol** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:22 am

you can also use the free PSP vintagemeter and put it as a plugin on the master output...... make sure you use your ears instead of your eyes most of the time though..... "if it sounds good, it is good" as joe meek used to say.....

Olaf

majestic · Post by **majestic** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:59 am

I seem to remember Elemental Audio's freebie Inspector plugin also "remembers" clipping so you can easily see where it's happening. Personally, like Olaf, I just use my ears.

I hate brickwall limiters and mastering plugs like L2 (at least, when used by me rather than a capable mastering engineer that is!). The mixes are heaps louder, but IMO the loss of dynamic range is simply not worth the tradeoff...

olafmol · Post by **olafmol** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:12 am

majestic wrote:I seem to remember Elemental Audio's freebie Inspector plugin also "remembers" clipping so you can easily see where it's happening. Personally, like Olaf, I just use my ears.

I hate brickwall limiters and mastering plugs like L2 (at least, when used by me rather than a capable mastering engineer that is!). The mixes are heaps louder, but IMO the loss of dynamic range is simply not worth the tradeoff...

we do our own mastering, mainly using the UAD1 plugins plus sometimes some outboard ......plus a mastering limiter (yes it has to be around the same loudness as other commercial releases, so we have to i'm afraid).....i am very happy with Voxengo Elephant 2 .......it's much more transparant than L2...of course its important not to limit to much dB's..just a little......and having a good mix is also very important, make sure each sound is filtered to only pass through the intended freq range, this clears up a mix very much.....

the thing with the "sounding louder/punchier" is really almost difference in loudness, often introduced by different panning laws....you have the same effect with rewiring reason tracks into a rewire host like cubase....people claim it sounds better, but it's just sounding a little louder....

Olaf

majestic · Post by **majestic** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:43 am

Yeah, I should qualify my post by saying that I actually love mastering plugs when used correctly by capable mastering engineers. However, unfortunately I'm not one of the above.

olafmol · Post by **olafmol** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:52 am

majestic wrote:Yeah, I should qualify my post by saying that I actually love mastering plugs when used correctly by capable mastering engineers. However, unfortunately I'm not one of the above.

to be honest, when releasing on 12" vinyl for DJ's there should be almost no mastering.......this is because you don't have album tracks that have to be coherent in sound and volume, but only 2 or 3 individual tracks that stand on their own..... and the mix should be so good that you only need a littlebit of corrective EQ'ing (mostly cambridge and/or pultec, sometimes a littlebit voxengo curveEQ (i use this a lot for analysis) ) plus a littlebit of limiting to get the loudness up there.....the cutting engineer is going to remove the unwanted/impossible frequencies anyway to protect the cutting-machine..

Olaf

D K · Post by **D K** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:50 pm

i believe that the problem with most audio releases these days is that dynamics are lost by trying to make everything loud. most people
(especially dj's) gush over the sound of vintage recordings, i believe
this is due in part to the retention of dynamics. you gotta leave some room for serious bass response. i personally would rather
have something sound good than worry about it's volume compared to other recordings.just two db can make a world of difference. you can always turn up the volume on your dj mixer or
stereo.just my $.02 .
cheers
d

olafmol · Post by **olafmol** » Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:53 pm

D K wrote:i believe that the problem with most audio releases these days is that dynamics are lost by trying to make everything loud. most people
(especially dj's) gush over the sound of vintage recordings, i believe
this is due in part to the retention of dynamics. you gotta leave some room for serious bass response. i personally would rather
have something sound good than worry about it's volume compared to other recordings.just two db can make a world of difference. you can always turn up the volume on your dj mixer or
stereo.just my $.02 .
cheers
d

the thing is: most DJ's are morons when it comes to audio-paths and gain structures, and thus are DJ'ing with the gain-setting on their channels to max.................. but i agree with you.....dynamics is much more important than loudness........

Olaf

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:27 am

olaf what are you using to keep those frequencies from overlapping

olafmol · Post by **olafmol** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:41 am

::mic-minimal:: wrote:olaf what are you using to keep those frequencies from overlapping

EQ/bandpass filters...........you can use the EQ4 in live for this, or any other bandpass/EQ you prefer.......just make sure only the frequencies of the sound itself come through......you can do this by sweeping the lowpass and highpass until parts of the sound start dissapearing, then move back a little.........

::mic-minimal:: · Post by **::mic-minimal::** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:33 am

thanks