Recording Guitar in Ableton

[chrisedmo]

anyways, you need to go to ableton prefs and then go to audio, and look for your audigy thing as the input - if its not there, it may be your default in and output.. then you need to go to ableton main window and then on one of your audio tracks you have to choose your input (1) and then click on the that tracks record symbol, and then click on an empty slot to record, or click record on the main window if you are in arrange view..

[Nod]

You can connect a guitar to a low-impedance input, it wont break anything. But the sound is like going to become dull as high frequencies get cut off by the small impedance difference between the guitar-output and the line-input.

omfg you're really pulling it out of your ass now. sorry Timur I dig your posts and your sense of humor but don't make shit up, please. a 'Hi Z' impedance is all he needs to look for, don't go making people look for specs to read the impedance of devices. wtf man??? this is not an afront on you, I just hate it when people post BULLSHIT, there's no need for it.

With all due respect Tone - exactly how is what Timur posted bullshit? The input impedance of the vast majority of amps is 1 Megohm (one million ohms). Any load on the guitar of less than 1 Megohm will reduce the volume and high frequency content of the pickup signal thus giving rise to complaints of "losing tone". Yeah maybe all the guy needs is a good high impedance DI box - but it's worth explaining why....

[Timur]

You either need to use a DI-Box (or a good stomp box/effect) or use an audio-interface with HI-Z/High Impedance inputs when recording a guitar directly. Line-Ins come with an impedance of only upto a few dozend kOhm, Guitars need an input impedance of several hundred kOhm, preferable something around 1 MOhm. My Hughes&Ketter Amp come with 1 MOhm inputs, GuitarRig's RigKontrol comes with 1 MOhm, Presonus audio-interfaces come with 1 MOhm. RME audio-interface only come with 470 kOhm and some DI-Boxes come with such a low value as well, but for most applications that seems to be suffient and still much better than just 10 kOhm on the Line-In.

You can connect a guitar to a low-impedance input, it wont break anything. But the sound is like going to become dull as high frequencies get cut off by the small impedance difference between the guitar-output and the line-input.

omfg you're really pulling it out of your ass now.

sorry Timur I dig your posts and your sense of humor but don't make shit up, please. a 'Hi Z' impedance is all he needs to look for, don't go making people look for specs to read the impedance of devices. wtf man???

this is not an afront on you, I just hate it when people post BULLSHIT, there's no need for it.

Hm, as far as I understood my post I started with a simple single line sentence saying exactly that: You need a "Hi Z" impedance. Then I took the time to explain what Hi Z means and where the difference is to normal Line-In inputs. Anyone is free to skip that part if he doesn't need the explanation, but given that there is no standard naming scheme for high impedance inputs it's not a bad idea to know what we are talking about. RME and several other vendors don't call them "Hi Z" for instance but "Instrument Input".


I mean to remember that when using a piezo-pickup on accustic instruments that you may need even higher input sometimes, depending on the kind of piezo. This is the point at which you either must read specs if you need to make sure it works or out, or just plug it in and listen at how it sounds and if you like the sound you're getting.

[Tone Deft]

it's completely obfiscated rambling. you'd have people buying gear asking about what the exact impedance is of their devices are. that's not something relevant. FWIW IMO you didn't explain what hi Z is at all.

I don't care, post what you want, I post what I want.

[Timur]

Ah, well, you're probably right that this these are too many infos for someone new to recording who is just looking to plug his guitar into the computer. So here again the simplified version:

If you need to record the signal of an electric guitar, either use a DI-Box, a good guitar-effect pedal, a guitar-preamp or buy an audio-interface that comes with so called "HI Z/HIGH Z" or "Instrument" Inputs. These are specially matched high impedance inputs for guitar-pickup signals.

[Timur]

You can connect a guitar to a low-impedance input, it wont break anything. But the sound is like going to become dull as high frequencies get cut off by the small impedance difference between the guitar-output and the line-input.

Instead of "like" I meant "likely". And wether the sound is going to be affected depends alot on the pickups being used and the instrument being recorded. "Hot" pickups are probably going to have less of a problem here. And instruments which mainly output high energy bass frequencies wont probably suffer much. In all cases this only affects passive pickups, active ones should generally be able to output a line-level signal anyway, or at least a high impedance signal (I have an Accoustic guitar here that even offers an XLR output beside the normal guitar connector).

[Tone Deft]

you don't know what you're talking about. you think you know because of some half assed logic you've used but you don't know the subject matter, it's bad advice.

high impedance is a wire that's not driven by active electronics, IOW an IC, a chip, a series of transistors, whatever.

to become dull as high frequencies get cut off by the small impedance difference between the guitar-output and the line-input.

wrong. you're saying its low pass filtered, low pass filters are created in passive electronics from a resistor-capacitor combination. low pass filters are not made from differences in impedences from source to target.

"Hot" pickups are probably going to have less of a problem here. And instruments which mainly output high energy bass frequencies wont probably suffer much.

I take 'hot pickups' to be overwound pickups, not active pickups. overwound pickups are hotter and pick up a larger signal from the pickups but it is not a driven line. it's still passive. it's also not a frequency dependent issue we're talking about.

n all cases this only affects passive pickups, active ones should generally be able to output a line-level signal anyway, or at least a high impedance signal (I have an Accoustic guitar here that even offers an XLR output beside the normal guitar connector).

yes, it only affects active pickups. I don't know if active pickups are line level, which we've discussed. FWIW, smaller point, XLR connectors indicate nothing, they don't mean active or balanced, it's just a connector, it could be anything.


anyway, kinda frustrating reading all this and it's founded on what I think are some bad assumptions on your part.

I'm being a dick here, thanks for being chill.

[Timur]

you don't know what you're talking about. you think you know because of some half assed logic you've used but you don't know the subject matter, it's bad advice.

That's ok, if both the poster and I can learn something here. So if you know things better than I than I'm happy to be corrected. By that even my "wrong" posts serve a good purpose.

to become dull as high frequencies get cut off by the small impedance difference between the guitar-output and the line-input.

wrong. you're saying its low pass filtered, low pass filters are created in passive electronics from a resistor-capacitor combination. low pass filters are not made from differences in impedences from source to target.

I will look that up again to be able to discuss it better, it's too late today.

FWIW, smaller point, XLR connectors indicate nothing, they don't mean active or balanced, it's just a connector, it could be anything.

I didn't mean to imply that, I meant to imply that guitars with active pickups come with more options to start with that may even include balanced lines. You are right in that a XLR connector is just that, a XLR connector. But if a guitar manufacturers includes a XLR connector to a guitar with active electronics it's not too out-of-this-world to assume it is a balanced line.

I'm being a dick here, thanks for being chill.

I've got a flu and am tired, no problem to be chill.

[Timur]

Wikipedia was the easiest way to get some well formulated informations, whenever it says "Output Buffer" you can insert "DI-Box/good effect pedal/guitar preamp".

wrong. you're saying its low pass filtered, low pass filters are created in passive electronics from a resistor-capacitor combination. low pass filters are not made from differences in impedences from source to target.

The external load usually consists of resistance (the volume and tone potentiometer in the guitar, and any resistance to ground at the amplifier input) and capacitance between the hot lead and shield in the guitar cable. The cable capacitance has a large effect and must not be neglected. This arrangement of passive components forms a resistively-damped second-order low-pass filter. Electromagnetic pickups are usually designed to feed a high input impedance, typically a megaohm or more and a low impedance load will reduce the high-frequency response of the pickup because of the filtering effect of the inductance.

I take 'hot pickups' to be overwound pickups, not active pickups. overwound pickups are hotter and pick up a larger signal from the pickups but it is not a driven line. it's still passive. it's also not a frequency dependent issue we're talking about.

I meant "hot" passive pickups yes, either by using stronger magnets or more windings. Both will increase the output voltage aka signal strength. More windings seem to be even more a problem when it comes to impedance though:

The output voltage of pickups varies between 100 mV rms to over 1 V rms for some of the higher output types. Some high-output pickups achieve this by employing very strong magnets thus creating more flux and thereby more output. These can be detrimental to the final sound because the magnets can tend to attract the strings and damp them thus greatly reducing sustain. Other high-output pickups have more turns of wire to increase the voltage generated by the string's movement. However, this also increases the pickup's output resistance/impedance, which can affect high frequencies if the pickup is not isolated by a buffer amplifier.

And finally a hint on piezo-pickups:

Piezoelectric pickups have a very high output impedance and appear as a capacitance in series with a voltage source. They must therefore have an instrument-mounted buffer amplifier fitted if the sound is to retain its full frequency response.

Most accoustic guitars outfitted with piezos are coming with inbuild electronics (like volume and EQ) should be no problem here, because these electronics should be just that: "an instruments-mounted buffer amplifier".

Feel free to correct any errors and teach me more insight! As a part-time guitarist I need to know these things myself. One question: Do you play guitar, Tone Deft?

[Homebelly]

One question: Do you play guitar, Tone Deft?

Yes he does,,,
has a very pretty Brian Moore as a mater of fact,,,

Aside of that though,, i'm kinda on your side,, if in fact a line has been drawn on this issue,, it's always been my understanding that the concept of Hi-Z has been a bit arbitrary and is some thing of a misapplied term that has come to mean some thing it isn't really about,, a bit like calling some thing a volume control,, or a tone pot,

As a guitarist first and foremost i have found my self in situations where i have had to use an active DI to record a clean sound, even if the actual guitar is being split into both the desk and an amp,, in these situations i have used a Buzz audio DI that is labeled HI-Z input,,,, it also has an instrument level out put that allows me to send an un boosted signal to my amp at the same time,,
Other times i have just used an active microphone preamp and boosted the signal at that stage,, the best version of this is a NEVE desk or,, better yet,, a trident,, i have also recorded through an old allen and heath that sounded fucking awesome.
If none of these options are available then the RAT pedal is a god alternative,, but it does add a lot of color,, same with the original sans-amp set on clean boost no overdrive using the dip switches,,

I think part of the confusion is in the relatively non standardization of what is HI-Z,,what is instrument level,, what is mic level and so on,, it's only really quite recently that some manufacturers are using the same terms with the same spec,,
Tones,, i think,, works in electrical engineering,, and so he is used to terms meaning specific things,, while, as i'm sure any one that has been around music tech, and recording in particular for a while will probably attest,, these are both comparatively add-hock sciences at best and are rife with terms that are used out of place, but work inside the culture as they have become part of the language,,
One of my personal favorite examples of this misunderstanding is that a lot of people will swear blind that a 100 watt amp is twice as loud as a 50 watt amp,,

any hoo,,,
just my thoughts,,
if ya both want to duke it out,, it will be marquis of queensbury rules,, in the park,, bring your own seconds,,,

[Seyser Koze]

But my 100w goes up to 11.

[Timur]

if ya both want to duke it out,, it will be marquis of queensbury rules,, in the park,, bring your own seconds,,,

What park? Do I have to cross the channel just for getting shot at?

[Tone Deft]

a bunch of stuff

20 years and I have guitars with all the features you're introducing me too, give me a break.

there's not much to correct because all you did was quote wikipedia. I just don't think you understand what you're quoting. you're coming at it from a guitarist viewpoint, I'm coming at it as an academic, I do this shit for a living, have been for 10 years. you're making stuff up as you go and cleaning up after yourself along the way. this is pointless. I think we've kinda hit a point where we're pretty much saying the same thing, just from different angles. I see where you're coming from it's just that the details are kinda screwed up.

[Timur]

One question: Do you play guitar, Tone Deft?

Yes he does,,,
has a very pretty Brian Moore as a mater of fact,,,

Good to know! I didn't mean to imply anything by this question, but just wanted to know if I'm talking to a guitarist at all. Most people here seem to come from a computer-music/DJ only background.

[Tone Deft]

gotta say though Timur, this is what I'm impressed by, you do pick up on technical issues and run with them on your own. that strikes me that you're probably quite a smart guy, it's just getting the details down. you pick up on things pretty fast and can go pretty far with them without help. it's just that by learning them on your own some details are missed.

dunno, it's still morning here, need coffee, can't think.