Dropouts spikes when sending lots of Midi notes to External

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:02 pm

Live 7 produces dropouts with spikes of well over several hundred percent on Live's CPU meter when sending lots of Midi notes over several channels simoultanously to external devices (Korg padKONTROL). With the very same settings this does not happen in Live 6. The real CPU load stays well below 10% according to Windows' task-manager (set to high priority to make sure no peaks go unrecognized).

The problems vanish as soon as the external Midi device is either turned off via Preferences of disconnected. The problem even occurs if Live sends data via a virtual Midi port and that Midi port is connected to the physical external device via a third-party application. When the physical device is *not* connected but only the virtual Midi port some minor glitches can be heard.

I will investigate further into this and post a video that demonstrates the issue.

jab · Post by **jab** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:37 pm

Hi Timur,

we are aware of this problem and are
currently working on a solution.
This issue was initially brought up here:
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78466

cheers,
Jan

dancerchris · Post by **dancerchris** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:18 pm

Buchholz wrote:Hi Timur,

we are aware of this problem and are
currently working on a solution.
This issue was initially brought up here:
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78466

cheers,
Jan

Finally an acknowlegement there is a problem! Thanks for working to fix it Abes.

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:56 pm

Very well, thank you Jan! I wonder though when the first patch release if planed? I understand that you cannot throw out bug-fixes in short intervals like you did during Beta. But since I do not own Live 6 to work with until Live 7 is stable these things are important for me. I need to use my external plugins and devices flawlessly to keep creativity and work flowing once I stop bugging you with geeky tech-stuff.

Do you need any further informations regarding this issue? Do you already know the source of the problem or would it help to find out more about it? I do wonder if this is an USB only problem? I can try sending lots of stuff via a real Midi interface that suppors both MME and native DirectMusic to a real hardware synth workstation (Korg 01/W) if that helps.

dancerchris · Post by **dancerchris** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:17 am

I was experiencing these clicks until user qbical suggested going over my midi device setup and I did this:

Apparently I am a novice device setup user as well. I took your suggestion and went over the midi setup. I had too many options selected, I believe. I reset everything to off and restarted my configuration. I am currently using a padKontrol and an Axiom 49. I configured each in the instant mappings and setup only input from each in the manual settings section. This seems to have gotten rid of my pops, glitches and even mousing problems. It is a bit early to say, but I haven't had a glitch since. Sounds like your "midi feedback" analysis is somewhat correct, at least there is something in terms of a conflict. Good call!

I've tried saturating the midi bus and mousing to get clicks and now unable to. Looks like this worked for me.

erickdan · Post by **erickdan** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:49 pm

I had a lot of problems with Live 6 where the audio would dropout every minute or two. It didn't matter if I was recording or not, or how many plug-ins I was using, or the number of tracks. The glitches were random.

I finally fixed it by disabling the power management features in the BIOS, increasing Live's process priority, and disabling my wireless adapter while using Live.

Hopefully this will help others as well.

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:45 pm

This is a double post, which I put up on the 7.02 Beta thread, too (which will likely disappear once 7.02 is out).

After some in-depth investigation with all of my Midi interfaces and a hardware synth I have found the connections between probably all Live 7.01/Midi related problems. Most likely the source of all timing/spikes/glitches problem is the very same that affects the Remote SL: Live's Midi Output is extremly bandwidth limited, for those interfaces/drivers affected it often even worse with MME than with emulated/native DirectMusic. These bugs do not affect Live 6.10 when using the very same interfaces/drivers.

Since I cannot use 7.02 (only useable by registered users) I do not know how much of these issues have been fixed yet. I don't want to waste my time with writing a lenghty report if these things have been handled already anyway, so let me know if you need exact number of notes/midi events necessary to make these issues appear. Different interface/drivers behave differently, all show a specific limit of bandwidth from which on the issues appear. Some start increasing Live CPU meter step by step with increasing bandwidth (more notes being send), some stay down at 1% but start showing short spikes of 100-600% on Live's CPU meter, others start showing regular spikes around 50-60%, some are very much affected by turning on Sync, some are not. All get worse the more midi events/notes are send, which is can also be a problem when stoping a Midi clip during playback, because the Note Off commands increase bandwidth for a short time. All work fine upto a certain point/bandwidth which is different for all interfaces/drivers. It does not matter wether an external hardware synth is connected to an interface or not!

This is an all internal problem of Live 7's engine, Live's CPU load hardly increases when checked with Windows' Task-Manager. And Live 6.10 does even increase its own CPU meter above 1% when sending double or tripple as many notes to the very same devices.

But for those poor souls who keep fighting their Remote SL problems and have "Sync" output enabled I advice to disable it to lower the outgoing bandwidth to the Remote SL. Unfortunately the SL is among those devices that are heavily affected, even more with MME than DirectMusic.

Timur · Post by **Timur** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:25 pm

By the way, it does not help to use a virtual Midi connection between the affected interface/driver and Live 7. Sending Midi output to MidiYoke and then connecting the MidiYoke port to a PCI Midi device output via MidiOX (which always uses MME) leads to the same results like connecting Live directly to the PCI Midi device via MME. As soon as the connection between MidiYoke and the PCI Midi port is made Live's performance drops.

arturnowak · Post by **arturnowak** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:50 am

I have same/similar issues with MIDI data going out to Machinedrum over TurboMIDI interface - see topic http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83403

arturnowak · Post by **arturnowak** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:02 pm

Sorry for cross posting from the other topic, but Live 7.0.2b5 didn't fix the MIDI out problem I have (CPU spikes to 80%, slowing tempo down to 1/2 with just 6 MIDI out tracks and a dozen of MIDI envelopes).

It seems that the new, "improved" Live MIDI engine introduced a lot of problems, which are not fixed by the next beta.

Do I have to say "goodbye" to Live 7 for a couple of months?

Dropouts spikes when sending lots of Midi notes to External

Dropouts spikes when sending lots of Midi notes to External

Bandwidth limitation of external Midi output in Live 7