Recording with S/PDIF

SilverJS · Post by **SilverJS** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:53 pm

Hi there,

I know this has been covered before (I searched), but I could not find an answer.

I have a Triton Extreme, an Roland XV-5050 and an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96. The Triton is connected to the sound card's analog ins, and the XV is connected via RCA cable, to the S/PDIF in of the card.

Now - I can record the audio from the Triton fine in Live (I have version 7), but I can't see how to record the XV's sound using S/PDIF. Everything S/PDIF is activated in the card's control panel (in fact, I can hear the XV just fine when using the Editor), and all my inputs are activated in Live.

What gives?

Cheers!

JSB

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:56 pm

make sure the sample rates for each device are set to the same setting.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:58 pm

S/PDIF is just like any other input. If you see it on your soundcard, AND you've enabled the inputs in your Live's audio input prefs, you should be able to select it in a track's input drop down. Make sure all of those is true.

Now, one other thing about S/PDIF...you need at least a 75ohm cable. Your every day RCA cable may seem to work, but you could easily lose bits of data, because it's a digital connection from one end to the other. You can get a cheap HOSA cable from online sources, but it ha to be 75ohm and S/PDIF approved.

SilverJS · Post by **SilverJS** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:23 pm

HAH!

I strongly suspected it was something stupid, and turns out I was right. =)

I was expecting to see "S/PDIF" or something in a drop-down somewhere...but, by selecting, in my case, "3/4", that did the trick.

Thanks for the help!

JSB

aqua_tek · Post by **aqua_tek** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:51 pm

now that we're on the topic of S/PDIF i'm also considering using it for my TI.

the one question is, would s/pdif t be able to transmit audio from all 16 parts in the TI? sounds like it could be a good way to take full advantage of the multitimbral capabilities while minimizing cable clutter.

not familiar with s/pdif at all so i thought i might as well ask

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:08 pm

The S/PDIF is just a digital transfer of the audio signal, as opposed to say a quarter inch jack, which is an analog transfer of the audio. If you can route all 16 parts of your TI through the S/PDIF, then yes, you can capture all that sound into your sound card's S/PDIF input. However, keep in mind that all 16 parts will be mixed to one stereo signal, because that's all you get in the S/PDIF input.

S/PDIF is basically just like any other stereo input. The only difference is that the transfer is pure digital.

dcease · Post by **dcease** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:16 pm

nebulae wrote:The S/PDIF is just a digital transfer of the audio signal, as opposed to say a quarter inch jack, which is an analog transfer of the audio. If you can route all 16 parts of your TI through the S/PDIF, then yes, you can capture all that sound into your sound card's S/PDIF input. However, keep in mind that all 16 parts will be mixed to one stereo signal, because that's all you get in the S/PDIF input.

S/PDIF is basically just like any other stereo input. The only difference is that the transfer is pure digital.

yeah, in theory, the digital out put should be cleaner, as it will not have two extra conversions to go through( out of the ti, in the soundcard), if that is your thing...

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:22 pm

^^ agree with the "if that's your thing" comment - the best thing about the Virus is the digital to analog conversion. It sounds so good and gritty, that I'd never use it to record straight digitally...even thru the USB. There's some strange german voodoo magic that happens out of those analog outputs, but that's where I think the Virus's real strength lies...that sound is so phat and dirty and mean.

aqua_tek · Post by **aqua_tek** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:36 am

nebulae wrote: However, keep in mind that all 16 parts will be mixed to one stereo signal, because that's all you get in the S/PDIF input.

S/PDIF is basically just like any other stereo input. The only difference is that the transfer is pure digital.

ahhhh right that was my one question. was hoping it was more than just another stereo i/o and it somehow was able to send out multiple channels.

looks like i'll stick to the analog outs then

thank you kindly

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:53 am

nebulae wrote:^^ agree with the "if that's your thing" comment - the best thing about the Virus is the digital to analog conversion. It sounds so good and gritty,

there's something wrong with your levels then. if an A/D converter was designed to sound different than its analog source it's not done right. I highly doubt that the digital outs are 'gritty' by design, that's bad engineering.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:00 am

Tone Deft wrote:
nebulae wrote:^^ agree with the "if that's your thing" comment - the best thing about the Virus is the digital to analog conversion. It sounds so good and gritty,
there's something wrong with your levels then. if an A/D converter was designed to sound different than its analog source it's not done right. I highly doubt that the digital outs are 'gritty' by design, that's bad engineering.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself well. All I'm saying is that hearing a Virus from the analog outputs feels warmer to me than hearing it thru the digital sources. Perhaps it's just my ears, which could very well be the case

dcease · Post by **dcease** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:02 am

Tone Deft wrote:
nebulae wrote:^^ agree with the "if that's your thing" comment - the best thing about the Virus is the digital to analog conversion. It sounds so good and gritty,
there's something wrong with your levels then. if an A/D converter was designed to sound different than its analog source it's not done right. I highly doubt that the digital outs are 'gritty' by design, that's bad engineering.

i think he was refering to the analog outs being gritty, not the digital...

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:14 am

reply to both - either way... both outputs should reproduce the original signal. do you think Access would want their stuff designed so each output sounded different? it's all about the internal sound engine making the sounds, the outputs have to be transparent otherwise they're shitting all over all the work the DSP engineers did in that sweet engine of theirs.

my $0.02. been carrying a fever for 3 days now, feeling funky.

dcease · Post by **dcease** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:38 am

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:43 am

dcease wrote:yeah, going into a mixer,this might be somewhat true, but every amplification/conversion the audio goes through will "shit on" the hard work, to a degree. whether or not the differences are important/noticable in the end, the digital signal would be different, as the d/a conversion out of the ti, and through the inputs of said interface, would indeed color the sound. access' d/a conversion could sound wholly different to the interfaces', and as such, if your soundcard had"clearer" conversion, then the hardwork by access, in the coding, would be realized... but if access' intentions were for the d/a to impart a sense of grittiness to the analog outs, then there you go..., although the thing having 3 different outs, (as i am sure the usb will sound "different" to the spdif, probably not too noticeable to all) they probably wanted the user to decide which one to use... of course we are splitting hairs here...
but nice of them to care. i might pick one up myself, had a bit of a windfall this weekend, and the old lady asked me if there was a box i wanted...

and you caught it from me... always wash your hands after using the computer!

that's total bullshit.

do you know the level of artifacts of D/A conversion? this is 2008, audio signals are quite slow compared to the GHz signals modern circuitry can handle. this stuff has been hashed out for decades.

it's all well below -110dB, far below what you'll detect. this is just another example of people hearing some snake oil bullshit about audio and buying into it.

peace.

I do bow down to Neb's production skills and hearing, if he's hearing something I'd look along the audio chain.