Go out and vote

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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:50 pm

glu wrote:
lesterdiamond wrote:I don't have very much faith in politics but I am going to vote anyway.

I'd hope that someone like Ron Paul would have the capability to win the presidency, anyone that is not allowed on fox news is worth voting for IMO
RP doesn't stand a chance, never did.

The table is rigged folks, it's been proven time and time again.

How many documented instances of likely election fraud have surfaced over this year's primary season so far?
man, you're STILL swinging on RP's johnson?? you're blaming the polls for his poor showing? he was never in the running, get over it man. if he ran as a democrat he might have had more of a chance but he's a fringe candidate, another Ross Perot type appealing to the disenfranchised but just diluting the vote in what's clearly a two party system.

now that RP is GONE, who are you voting for?
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

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dcease
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Post by dcease » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:52 pm

a lot gets said about doing something, if you want a change. i level this to all who feel that voting for a president will actually make a change, esp those who are party voters... what difference does it make? is it preordained? is it democracy in action? what does a president actually do? as far as i can tell, they have little effect on lawmaking, other than signing bills into effect, or vetoing them. the party in power will decide legislature, and the president merely acts as the sounding board. so if the president is a member of party A, then looking out for party A is priority number 1. i have not seen anyone "for the people", unless the people in question are the corporations who fund the election process. there is something to be said about a president, who's family is deep in the oil business, and his agenda only looks to make more money for themselves and their vested interests. the current price of oil would suggest that there is a shortage of oil, as the law of supply and demand dictate that something in scarce quantity, high demand, will draw a large profit from transaction. but there is not a shortage of oil. so if you jack up the price of a needed, plentiful product, you weaken currency. who is responsible for this? follow the money trail...

if there is money to be made, they will make it. people do not matter in this equation, as history has proven time and time again. if someone wants something bad enough, they are willing to kill for it. it is easier to rob someone, or sell crack, or invade a country that stands between you and your billions, then to work at walmart, at a cash register. so the problem becomes the balance of those who will do what it takes, and those who do the "right" thing, even if it means loss of income, or even death. if society holds monetary value above all, then humanity is ignored, in favor of profit.

together we stand, divided we fall... and this country is seriously divided right now. a president/congress who further drives that wedge will do nothing to change anything, as there is too much money to be made. none of them are willing to shoot themselves in the foot... and hence, none represent me, and shall not receive my vote. it is not that hard to admit you made a mistake, but the work to repair damages is hard. it is easier to ignore, and deny, which is what we seem to do best. blame it on someone else, never accept responsibility for your actions. that is the american way, and it is a shame.

it starts with our children... this is where the change must come from. unless it is too late...

woe be unto the world if/when mccain becomes president. the democratic party is not helping matters, either. i doubt popslut will have to eat that hat... it is a nice thought, tho... unfortunately, we do judge people by their appearence... and this is sad, as it has always been. but it is reality...

this has caused me to distrust any group of people. i draw no distinctions between individuals, but when people get together, led by someone, i am wary of their motives. fanatics are not to be trusted, only individual, unbiased, intellegent thought, seeking to advance us as a whole, instead of pointing out another's shortcomings... and lord knows i am full of those, as we all are. there needs to be a sense of unity, for ALL people, as this is our planet. it is better to get along with your neighbor, and accept their individual ideals, then it is to attempt to hold them down, and see it your way. none of us see everything the same... so if your point is valid, why is a differing pov not? one man's treasure and all...

icedsushi
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Post by icedsushi » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:24 pm

BinaryB wrote:You aint admitted you said stupid stuff... Logical people dont talk about history then claim that "I was too young to understand it." :lol:

Its all good baby chill out. :roll:
I'm chilled now, chilled, cool as a cucumber. All thanks to the lesson on how to be a more logical person. That's what life is all about, there are only the logical people and then there are the people who say stupid stuff.

I now have learned not to state any casual opinion. Only a strong one backed up with 100% conviction, only with purpose of full intention to enter a heated debate. And never give people the benefit of the doubt in the meantime before I have all the info, because that's stupid stuff. This cornucopia of wisdom will help me to great lengths to improve my well being and relationships with others. :)

BinaryB
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Post by BinaryB » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:24 am

icedsushi wrote: :)
Thank You for holding yourself to the lofty standards that you share so freely with others.

I am glad you have managed to extract such deep wisdom from said banter. I do feel that you are now heading in a much more constructive direction and I wish you the best in your endeavors to achieve enlightenment.

Thank You for your clarity and honesty, it has been truly inspirational and i feel that i am a better person because i had this interaction with such an understanding and tolerant person. You are a model of maturity and i am sure that your influence on this planet will further the efforts of all humanitarians and therefore the human race.

And last but definitely not least... Thanks for the incredible sense of humor you have displayed in light of such adversity during these times of uncertainty.

:lol:
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glu
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Post by glu » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:31 am

Tone Deft wrote:
glu wrote:
lesterdiamond wrote:I don't have very much faith in politics but I am going to vote anyway.

I'd hope that someone like Ron Paul would have the capability to win the presidency, anyone that is not allowed on fox news is worth voting for IMO
RP doesn't stand a chance, never did.

The table is rigged folks, it's been proven time and time again.

How many documented instances of likely election fraud have surfaced over this year's primary season so far?
man, you're STILL swinging on RP's johnson?? you're blaming the polls for his poor showing? he was never in the running, get over it man. if he ran as a democrat he might have had more of a chance but he's a fringe candidate, another Ross Perot type appealing to the disenfranchised but just diluting the vote in what's clearly a two party system.

now that RP is GONE, who are you voting for?
Why are you including my post in your response? mistake I hope, i never swung on anybody's johnson.
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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:33 am

^ guilty as charged, bad editing.

who are the Ron Paul fans going to vote for? I never read any right-leaning issues that led people to vote for him.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

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popslut
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Post by popslut » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:56 am

A vote in an election is, amongst other things, an endorsement of the electoral system itself.

If you feel that the current state of "electoral procedure" is entirely fair and representative then knock yourself out - vote away.

If, like me, you feel that the current state of dubious western "democracy" is cause for great concern then your only honest option is to abstain from the whole sorry process.

A vote for anyone is a vote for the status quo.

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:27 am

Tone Deft wrote:fuck, Reagan had full blown Altzheiner's the day he was out of office, did it ever occur to these people that Reagan was fully OFF his rocker while IN office? during the Iran Contra hearings all he could say was "I don't recall" to the questions, I half believe he couldn't recall, he was a walking vegetable.

/end rant.
yeah and George W Bush is president now

perfect puppets......they dont have to actually do anything, just tell the people what the real arseholes who run everything are doing in a good ole boy accent

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:30 am

popslut wrote:A vote in an election is, amongst other things, an endorsement of the electoral system itself.

If you feel that the current state of "electoral procedure" is entirely fair and representative then knock yourself out - vote away.

If, like me, you feel that the current state of dubious western "democracy" is cause for great concern then your only honest option is to abstain from the whole sorry process.

A vote for anyone is a vote for the status quo.
well, in an ideal world maybe, but in reality all it means is the right wing ones DO vote and the worse of the two evils gets in

sorry but there is NO WAY any Democrat ever was as bad as George W Bush

in fact no REp either

and shit, Al Gore would have been president - sure he's probably no saint, but he's spent his time since going on about global warming - that has to win him some brownie points

chrysalis33rpm
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Post by chrysalis33rpm » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:40 am

popslut wrote:A vote in an election is, amongst other things, an endorsement of the electoral system itself.

If you feel that the current state of "electoral procedure" is entirely fair and representative then knock yourself out - vote away.

If, like me, you feel that the current state of dubious western "democracy" is cause for great concern then your only honest option is to abstain from the whole sorry process.

A vote for anyone is a vote for the status quo.
I love comfortable educated people pontificating on the uselessness of participating in society.

You've figured out that the system is not fair - you're a genius. You think your abstention is going to have any effect on the world? Oh no! Popslut's not voting! We'd better change the system! About as effective as Timur threatening to return Live if the bugs aren't fixed.

The fact is that concrete policy differences will develop as a result of who wins the American elections this fall. Differences in billions of dollars in spending and taxation on war, healthcare, education, environmental regulations. There is a difference - and there is a vote. Not a fair vote, but better than none at all - and one which some of our ancestors died to bring to us. Holding up your nose because its not a pure enough system for you is hardly admirable.

thefool
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Post by thefool » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:43 am

*edit:removed stupid comments on your healthcare system*

I hope the next president will do a better job for you


that said, tone deft, which of the current candidates do you like the most? just wondering :)
and others too if you're willing to share a bit of points.

smutek
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Post by smutek » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:02 pm

popslut wrote:A vote in an election is, amongst other things, an endorsement of the electoral system itself.

If you feel that the current state of "electoral procedure" is entirely fair and representative then knock yourself out - vote away.

If, like me, you feel that the current state of dubious western "democracy" is cause for great concern then your only honest option is to abstain from the whole sorry process.

A vote for anyone is a vote for the status quo.
I'm starting to feel the same way. To put it simply, do I want to vote and thus give legitimacy to (what I consider to be) a fake election in a fake democracy.

I haven't decided yet. I am a registered democrat and as such will definitely not be voting in the primary. Simply because there is no candidate from the democratic party to whom I would consider giving my vote. I'm finished with the Democrats, what a fucking let down they are.

I'm changing party affiliation and have not decided if I will cast a vote in the general election or not, for precisely the same reasons popslut mentions.

smutek
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Post by smutek » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:22 pm

forge wrote: sorry but there is NO WAY any Democrat ever was as bad as George W Bush
I think in a sense that is true. This current bunch seem to be the worst of the lot, I agree. But don't fool yourself. Clinton maintained a sanctions regime that destroyed Iraqs economy and was responsible for the deaths of as many as half a million children in Iraq.

Those numbers were later disputed and said to be around 350,000 - but regardless, the impact is undeniable. When confronted with the number of 500,000 dead Iraqi children former Clinton Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said "I think it is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think the price is worth it."

They thought the price was "worth it". Hundreds of thousands of dead children. Worth it. There we see one of the costs of so called "liberal" American foreign policy.

You might remember that Bush the 1st left Saddam in power. It was the Clinton administration who put regime change on the table as a part of American policy, and it was Bush the 2nd who followed through.

One thing about Bush, at least you know where he stands. These Democrats that pretend to be liberal, run on so called liberal platforms, wtf? It still completely baffles me to hear people on the right refer to Hillary Clinton as a liberal.

Fuck them all. Hillary can suck my dick. 2 of Obamas main advisors on foregin policy are Anthony Lake, former Cinton National Security Adviser, and Zbigniew Brzezinski, former Carter National Security adviser, so I don't see where much is going to change there with regards to the rest of the world. Just read Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard" to get a glimpse of his views.

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:28 pm

smutek wrote:
popslut wrote:A vote in an election is, amongst other things, an endorsement of the electoral system itself.

If you feel that the current state of "electoral procedure" is entirely fair and representative then knock yourself out - vote away.

If, like me, you feel that the current state of dubious western "democracy" is cause for great concern then your only honest option is to abstain from the whole sorry process.

A vote for anyone is a vote for the status quo.
I'm starting to feel the same way. To put it simply, do I want to vote and thus give legitimacy to (what I consider to be) a fake election in a fake democracy.

I haven't decided yet. I am a registered democrat and as such will definitely not be voting in the primary. Simply because there is no candidate from the democratic party to whom I would consider giving my vote. I'm finished with the Democrats, what a fucking let down they are.

I'm changing party affiliation and have not decided if I will cast a vote in the general election or not, for precisely the same reasons popslut mentions.
I hate this viewpoint. "I don't like the system so I'm not going to vote." it's all you've got, not voting accomplishes nothing, in fact it hurts you because your voice isn't heard. really weak move of the pseudo-intellectual (using intellect to arrive at an unintelligent solution), IMO. have some balls, make a fucking choice, stop your whining.

who am I voting for? whoever the Dems put up. there's not much difference between Hillary and Obama, Hillary brings more experience and has Bill in tow, so that's preferable to me. I can't fathom how any of the GOP candidates can even be considered as sane.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

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smutek
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Post by smutek » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:45 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
smutek wrote:
popslut wrote:A vote in an election is, amongst other things, an endorsement of the electoral system itself.

If you feel that the current state of "electoral procedure" is entirely fair and representative then knock yourself out - vote away.

If, like me, you feel that the current state of dubious western "democracy" is cause for great concern then your only honest option is to abstain from the whole sorry process.

A vote for anyone is a vote for the status quo.
I'm starting to feel the same way. To put it simply, do I want to vote and thus give legitimacy to (what I consider to be) a fake election in a fake democracy.

I haven't decided yet. I am a registered democrat and as such will definitely not be voting in the primary. Simply because there is no candidate from the democratic party to whom I would consider giving my vote. I'm finished with the Democrats, what a fucking let down they are.

I'm changing party affiliation and have not decided if I will cast a vote in the general election or not, for precisely the same reasons popslut mentions.
I hate this viewpoint. "I don't like the system so I'm not going to vote." it's all you've got, not voting accomplishes nothing, in fact it hurts you because your voice isn't heard. really weak move of the pseudo-intellectual, IMO. have some balls, make a fucking choice, stop your whining.

who am I voting for? whoever the Dems put up. there's not much difference between Hillary and Obama, Hillary brings more experience and has Bill in tow, so that's preferable to me. I can't fathom how any of the GOP candidates can even be considered as sane.
Typical response from a pseudo liberal.

Hate to be a dick, but tone down your rhetoric and open your mind before you start telling me to "have some balls" and stop "whining". You know where I stand.

A decision to boycott an election is quite different than saying "oh my vote isn't heard" or not voting out of laziness. It's a conscious decision and one that takes more courage, thought and genuine insight than just voting for "whoever the dems throw up" IMHO.

If it came down to it and I had my choice of Hitler, Stalin or Musolini I'd rather say that I choose none. An extreme example yes, but an example nonetheless.
Last edited by smutek on Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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