FRESH HOT ANAL FUCKING AAARGH!!!!!

[forge]

I cant help but think Machinesworking's view is quite specific to the US - I think Europeans (and Antipodeans) are quite different

ask any of the Berliners here on this forum and I'm sure they'll give you a very different perspective - burlesque is seeing a real revival now, and the burlesque shows are far from strip clubs - they have accordian players, sword swallowers, bearded ladies and all that - well I dont know about that last one...

but there is even a bit of it going on in australia - the links to circus are far stronger than the links to strip clubs

I suspect the term burlesque is probably used a little differently in the states

re: Berlin - we were thinking of going to Berlin with a few acts, but there are big cultural differences. Cabaret (my German friends tell me) didn't really die out over there, while in the UK that entertainment fell badly out of favour in the 1970s, and was re-invented in the mid 1990s as a very different 'cool' London thing.
UK burlesque / cabaret is arty circus skills types grinding angle grinders on metal knickers, while Berlin cabaret references Weimar era decadence In a way they are burdened by their strong history of invention, where we discarded ours so made a different new one.

Also, partial nudity hasn't the same titillation values in Germany as it does in England. As we know - the Germans only put clothes on for special holidays(!)

RE: American Burlesque.
The only acts I know are from New York, and they are even more performance arty than the ones we have here. An example might be the coney island based "This or That " online tv show
http://thisorthat-video.blogspot.com/


I think that's pretty representative.

I have no idea about what happens anywhere else in the states though.
Severe Nastyness apparently !

yeah - the angle grinder knickers thing is something I've seen here to - dont know if that's a UK act - but I think there is quite a bit going on here - I would say more in Melbourne or Sydney though

there is a variety TV show on here that has been featuring it a bit and they make it sound like there's quite a big scene - lots of Australian acts - and they are usually ex-gymnasts or aerobics instructors or something rather than 'bad girls' strippers

just before the last 'camp ableton' I saw a program about the 'neo-burlesque' scene that was flourishing in Berlin - they were saying there was a major resurgence going on - it looked brilliant and I really was hoping to go while there, but it didnt happen, then I saw Shawn from Abe and he said "oh you should have said, we went to one last night!" D'oh!

[Angstrom]

well, I was kind of meaning the term 'burlesque' - just wondering if it has sleazier connotations over there
burlesque to me definitely says 'circus' - if I was talking about just strippers I'd say a 'strip club'
BTW - @Original poster: do you want to change the thread title? I'm becoming a little self conscious over the emails in my in box

Burlesque clubs are actually an American invention, with a peak popularity between 1900 and 1960. A combo of subtle stripping and cheesy comedians. They fell out of fashion when the newer style strip clubs became popular in the 1960s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burlesque
that article is actually quite good.

Here in the UK now, 'Burlesque' for some people is about recreating the American 1950's. Yes, very weird - all the girls look like Betty Page, the blokes like James Dean. The visiting American performers look very confused!
Actually there are some other specific audience types who go to the clubs - there are some who look like early 1990s ravers, but they don't like rave music (!) I forget what that tribe is called, they are all very day glo. Most of the circus types come from that tribe. But the rockers don't really get on with them.

[Machinesworking]

well, I was kind of meaning the term 'burlesque' - just wondering if it has sleazier connotations over there

burlesque to me definitely says 'circus' - if I was talking about just strippers I'd say a 'strip club'

No it's exactly the same here forge. Like i said I had a friend who ran one of the larger reviews here in town, accordion players, ragtime bands, elaborate stage shows etc. I've known plenty of the girls, and my roomate dates one etc. She's not particularly messed up, but she is a stripper as a "day job".

Angstrom, you're FAR too emotionally invested in this debate, and I simply am not. You even admit I said generally, and that in no way implies EVERY case. There is no way in hell that you're going to be able to rationally debate me about this, you're taking it far too personally. So like I said, let's drop it, agree to disagree.

There are plenty of things that we can, and do agree on, the merits of burlesque, and emotional make up of the average burlesque performer, we simply will not agree about.

[Angstrom]

There is no way in hell that you're going to be able to rationally debate me about this, you're taking it far too personally. So like I said, let's drop it, agree to disagree.
.

I think I have debated perfectly rationally, I'm not taking it personally, I just enjoy being right and usually can make people say "yes you are right" by drawing logical parallels. Socratic dialog. A parallel with DJs using your same terms of reference (egotism, drugs, etc) seemed logical

But it looks like you aren't going to cry uncle here so I'll give up on that.

I still maintain that the girls I know are just as level headed as the DJs I know, and no more worthy of condemnation, and certainly no more likely to have chosen their vocation on the back of a kiddy fiddle.

[forge]

WILL SOMEBODY CHANGE THE GODDAMN THREAD TITLE!!!!!

[djadonis206]

WILL SOMEBODY CHANGE THE GODDAMN THREAD TITLE!!!!!

+ 79,234,984,234,654,099,333,000.9823409e^2

[forge]

[dcease]

how did you find a picture of my house!

[Angstrom]

sorry, I just find that picture amusing


and the thought of what Forge's inbox looks like

[Machinesworking]

There is no way in hell that you're going to be able to rationally debate me about this, you're taking it far too personally. So like I said, let's drop it, agree to disagree.
.

I think I have debated perfectly rationally, I'm not taking it personally, I just enjoy being right and usually can make people say "yes you are right" by drawing logical parallels. Socratic dialog. A parallel with DJs using your same terms of reference (egotism, drugs, etc) seemed logical

No logical parallel there I'm not arguing that DJ's have any better moral compass than burlesque girls, just that the statistics imply what i've seen for the last five years in the local scene.
Personally I don't know that many DJs, and of the local musicians I know the chances of stable emotional relationships does seem higher.

You are definitly getting charged behind this. case in point.

I'm not trying to 'disprove' them , I am questioning peoples interpretation of non concrete data in a partisan and self serving way.
I do this because you use it to serve your own argument that anyone going into burlesque is generally a result of them being abused, implying:

1: my girlfriend is a vain narcissistic bitch (she says she is by the way, I just asked her)
2: this is because she was most likely child molested and thats why she is so shallow and attention seeking (she denied being fiddled with, shallow and attention seeking she agreed to)
3: I am pussy whipped if I don't agree with you (she laughed)

You're using your own relationship as a judge by which to counter my claims, and you paint me out to be saying that ALL burlesque girls are batshit crazy, instead of what I did say, which is that the odds are not good in favor of emotionally stable burlesque girls, and I stand by that. Also, you quote me as saying generally, then accuse me of implying....... blah.

But it looks like you aren't going to cry uncle here so I'll give up on that.

Patronizing at best, intellectually vain at worst, if not again reeking of personal emotional attachment to the subject.

I still maintain that the girls I know are just as level headed as the DJs I know, and no more worthy of condemnation, and certainly no more likely to have chosen their vocation on the back of a kiddy fiddle.

Like I said, using DJs doesn't really work for me, most people I know are musicians, and other performers.
This is far too emotionally charged on your part, sorry man, but it's your woman's entertainment we're talking about, and this is a music board, not a burlesque board.

So yeah, I'm done with this thread. I don't want to spend all my time on this board arguing when I could be talking shop.

[forge]

But it looks like you aren't going to cry uncle here so I'll give up on that.

Patronizing at best, intellectually vain at worst, if not again reeking of personal emotional attachment to the subject.

you suffered a complete humour bypass there MW

[Angstrom]

you paint me out to be saying that ALL burlesque girls are batshit crazy, instead of what I did say, which is that the odds are not good in favor of emotionally stable burlesque girls, and I stand by that.

*ahem *
what you did say

Anybody want to make any bets on what the percentage of women working in the sex industry have been sexually molested? I'm certain the numbers go up to something ridiculous like 95%, I have no doubt about that. I've been around sex workers and burlesque girls my whole life pretty much. Most of my friends are poor. Every girl I have ever met who worked in the industry had stories of childhood sexual abuse.

So , I just didn't agree with your original contention that 95% of burlesque performers have been sexually abused. I felt it was a bit much and that it was not my experience.

I have only abused half of that many.

but I do agree that this topic is now less interesting than a woman wearing a bike helmet backwards.

[djadonis206]

Who goes to Burlesque shows anywayz?

like a Michael Bolton album - he's real popular but I can't think of a single person who owns his albums


y'allz weird

[forge]

a woman wearing a bike helmet backwards.

hehehehehh hehh heh heh

[knotkranky]

It is very reasonable to say that you are both right. This is not a topic of absolutes.




Oh, and what about that awesome Tesla coil synth!?