Logic, or save up for waves?

[doc holiday]

if there is a waves plug you want, you don't have to buy a bundle. you can buy them one at a time

[ilia]

I never once mentioned summing, and again, I've never used the master bus in Live and I have never once made a comment on it.Who peed in your cereal this morning? I was talking about this multiband limiting mystery that both Live and Reason have implemented, I couldn't tell you what it is...it is VERY noticable in the low end, but that has more to do with making techno than anything else. If I made guitar heavy country in Live, I might notice it in a different freq range. but I promise there is something going on.

ok, let me get this straight. you claim that if you play back a recorded file, no summing, no processing, Live will apply multi-band limiting to it that screws with your low end? Is that it? and you get that limiting if you then render the output or bounce it to another track?

[morerecords]

Ilia, did you take the time to read what I wrote in its entireity?
Here it is again. NOw, I really do have to get to making some tunes. Sometimes, I get caught up in these forum debates and 3-4 hours later realize I have been dickin around on the World Wide 'Wow' all day....damn addictive behavior...

Here ya go:


Wow, ilia. You should re-read. I never once mentioned summing until after I made the statement in question, and again, I've never used the master bus in Live and I have never once made a comment on it.Who peed in your cereal this morning? I was talking about this multiband limiting mystery that both Live and Reason have implemented, I couldn't tell you what it is...it is VERY noticable in the low end, but that has more to do with making techno than anything else. If I made guitar heavy country in Live, I might notice it in a different freq range. but I promise there is something going on. Look, I am not bashing your music app of choice, I am a user as well.


edit: after re-reading, those of you that are disputing my words, I don't think you understood what I was talking about, your responses aren't really releated.

When you are working in Live or Reason, there is something happening before your intention. I can tell you it is frequency dependent, and it is levelling your overall output and it is also reflected in individual multitrack bounces, a multiband limiter of some sort. I was commenting on my dislike of this function. What is really curious, is that when you render all tracks (as opposed to rendering master) it is still evident, meaning I suspect it is implemented (I am no computer person, sorry if the lingo is incorrect) BEFORE the option to shape your output's freq spectrum. It's in the staging. I also think that maybe the 'pro' DAWs (I know you hate that, but this is not pro functionality) allow for channels to get blown out, without any compensation, but that may have required considerable additional programming to accomplish, and it may be the exact reason people can hear differences in various audio engines to begin with. There IS more headroom available with the same exact audio in PT, Nuendo, or Logic. Now shoot me down all you want, I don't have time for this, so it will have to be my last response for this thread.
and Agina, FUCK WAVES : )

[thefool]

So for example you mixed the whole thing and finds the hihats for example should be more evident. You just increase hihat and then lower the channel whcih receives the drums to get same output?

I know what you are up to with this question, that fader grouping thing's not quite the same as subgrouping, so far i understand that request. Or maybe i don't understand it...

Maybe I don't understand it either

A matter of organizing. How do you organize it, so you don't have to run around pulling tons of faders all the time? Thats the question
(no hidden stupid intentions this time )

yeah I think so

I think the AAS plug-ins have some problems

That might be it, i have them hidden here!

[ilia]

Ilia, did you take the time to read what I wrote in its entireity?

I read your post in its entirety before you tacked on your edit. Which did little to elucidate the statement that you are trying to make. But yeah, whatever.

[morerecords]

Ilia, I'd say keep at it, you need to keep learning and you will get it. There is nothing stated that should be over your head. Additionally, I don't believe you read fully, there was not edit regarding that statement, just some reactionary negative statements directed at the couple folks who I always have words with on this forum, but then decided to take the high road.

[thefool]

I suppose this would be easily testable with a copy of Sonar and Live trying to mix the same?

[ilia]

Ilia, I'd say keep at it, you need to keep learning and you will get it. There is nothing stated that should be over your head.

I have no problem with people making confused or misguided statements. It's the condescending arrogant pricks who have no grasp of the subject matter but are quick to flaunt their supposed industry credentials that get to me. Adios.

[Tone Deft]

Ilia, I'd say keep at it, you need to keep learning and you will get it. There is nothing stated that should be over your head.

I have no problem with people making confused or misguided statements. It's the condescending arrogant pricks who have no grasp of the subject matter but are quick to flaunt their supposed industry credentials that get to me.

give morerecords a chance, I think there might be more to this guy than a hatred of 'rtfm' comments. he did come off like a n00b and I've been taking the pissout on him but ya never really know who's behind those words. it'll be clear in time. why not?

[ilia]

why not?

it's the definitive stance of pronouncements of the "writing in logic is a joke" type followed by "I am a pro" posturing that upsets my usually peaceful and friendly demeanor. pseudo-technical gibberish about multiband-limiting mysteriously built into channel playback doesn't help either.

[morerecords]

Ilia, I'd say keep at it, you need to keep learning and you will get it. There is nothing stated that should be over your head. Maybe that's harsh, but really...

Additionally, I don't believe you read fully, there was not edit regarding that statement, just some reactionary negative statements directed at the couple folks who I always have words with on this forum, but then decided to take the high road.

(God damnit! . sucked back into this thread.)

Here's the end for me:

Write in Live, there's nothing better IMHO.
I would reccomend the Newest version of Cubase for multitrack mix in conjucntion with a mixer

I am a 'pro' because I make money from my music, it's my job, not for any other reason. If you wanna give me some hippy bullshit about that being poor criteria for a musician, then you are likely raised in an overprivalged situation with a love affair about struggling artists. Oh, and I get tons of pussy, I love to drink scotch and play piano, and some folks really like mymusic, and I go to sleep every night smiling. I'm ragin and partying and hving a blast. (If I didn't waste my morning on forums.)

Waves make great products, but thier business practices are terrible

There is a free plug in called "W1" which is a starck replica of Waves L1, Live has spectrum analysis as of 7

Ilia, good luck and thanks for your intial sarcasm, now you show that you don't have a clue

Universal Audio makes several truly wonderful sounding plugins and would be a great alternative to Waves

PspVintage Warmer + Lexicon Psp42 = great

Ohm boyz make a great delay

Musolomo is a terrific free echoplex type plugaroonie

Mondo mod and the Meta flanger are worth the money

Sum your mono tracks through an SSL, Neve, or Mackie for that matter.. and yes Gearslutz is a better resource for knowledge with almost no assholes or heady nerds with attitudes. I may have reached out to this community, but goddamn it's pretty cut throat, This forum has a few assholes to say the least. And some good ones, and great msucians too.

[thefool]

I am a 'pro' because I make money from my music, it's my job, not for any other reason. If you wanna give me some hippy bullshit about that being poor criteria for a musician, then you are likely raised in an overprivalged situation with a love affair about struggling artists. Oh, and I get tons of pussy, I love to drink scotch and play piano, and some folks really like mymusic, and I go to sleep every night smiling. I'm ragin and partying and hving a blast. (If I didn't waste my morning on forums.)

It sure sounds like you come straight of MTV with the pussy comment

and I go to sleep every night smiling

Me too

I'm ragin and partying and hving a blast. (If I didn't waste my morning on forums.)

I just decided saturday i'll never go party again. Still got hangovers. Never again, at least not the next week.

i'm going skiing next week though, i'll see if i can stay away from the afterparties (i'll just bring something more interesting. Like Bob Katz Mastering audio or my live manual!)



anyhow i know this is something you'll say i'm stupid off, but i actually threw in a fat bassdrum and a deep big bass in live. I exported them as wave files, and then i noticed that they peak at -0.22db @ live and -4.5db in flstudio(not what you would call a pro daw yes yes, and yes i did turn up the track knobs)

Why is that?

[morerecords]

If you read the threas, I never started off saying anything like "I am a pro so listen to me" I used the work "pro" to describe Logic and PT, and I meant it as the app of choice for pro applications, Sound design, Modern music, Film Score etc...someone jumped down my throat and then it was so absurd that I had to justify it...but I did my best to defend the now personal attack.

Wow, musicans offended by the word 'pussy'???

I love 'pussy' and it seems to me this forum is almost equally about that, based on all the porn and nudie pics. I am offended by all the porn and I have even seen pics on this forum of children/teengaers so I bet the majority can le ta pussy comment slide...but sorry

I'm not familiar with FL studio, and I doubt I could answer that question. I don't think that is an accurate test.
Look ,I am talking either about the way Live handles relative channels when pumped due possibly to its internal coding (again I am very sorry for the terrible computer speak)
or possibly:
multiband limiting coded into the program.

Look it's audible, next time you have 6-8 channels going, just use your ears and listen to what happens when you introduce varying low freqs. Like,8 tracsk of SFX/melodic/perc elemnts supported by 3 layered kick drums, and a few layered basslines (even though none may be peaking anywhere near unity gain) just use your ears.

Then, render all tracks when you are done, import into your DAW, there is a great deal of headroom available. Even better, once you are there, replace and re-sequence your kicks with the same exact kicks (something I actually do) and feel the mule punch in your chest as your mix goes from being great to "holy shit"

I am not dissing this program, just stating what I have found its good for, and what it isn't. I love this app.

[Atypical]

+1 Logic

The Waves plug-ins are pro, but very expensive and made by a company that's not very customer-oriented, I'm sad to say.

For mastering purposes there are other options such as Wave Arts, Sonalksis or Ozone, should you choose not to go with Logic.

Peter

[thefool]

I didn't comment anything about it, just made a joke mna.

Wow, musicans offended by the word 'pussy'???

I love 'pussy' and it seems to me this forum is almost equally about that, based on all the porn and nudie pics. I am offended by all the porn and I have even seen pics on this forum of children/teengaers so I bet the majority can le ta pussy comment slide...but sorry

I wasn't offended at all. I would be offended if you posted a picture of one (unless you're talking about cats) eh. It doesn't make you pro, though. Some of the biggest losers(with a big L stamped in their forehead) I ever met got lots of pussy. It doesn't prove anything.

*but* what you are writing in the next section i'll comment does.
Besides you gotta learn to read between the lines with people like me. I wasn't offended or anything. Now i am, though.


/

I'm not familiar with FL studio, and I doubt I could answer that question. I don't think that is an accurate test.
Look ,I am talking either about the way Live handles relative channels when pumped due possibly to its internal coding (again I am very sorry for the terrible computer speak)
or possibly:
multiband limiting coded into the program.

Look it's audible, next time you have 6-8 channels going, just use your ears and listen to what happens when you introduce varying low freqs. Like,8 tracsk of SFX/melodic/perc elemnts supported by 3 layered kick drums, and a few layered basslines (even though none may be peaking anywhere near unity gain) just use your ears.

Then, render all tracks when you are done, import into your DAW, there is a great deal of headroom available. Even better, once you are there, replace and re-sequence your kicks with the same exact kicks (something I actually do) and feel the mule punch in your chest as your mix goes from being great to "holy shit"

I'm not familiar with fl studio either, but I used it in the very beginning. It was the only other DAW i had here besides Live

due possibly to its internal coding (again I am very sorry for the terrible computer speak)

I'm a software developer, don't mind talking about internal coding.
(autodidact though, but university starts this summer. Even more time for music? lets see)

Look it's audible, next time you have 6-8 channels going, just use your ears and listen to what happens when you introduce varying low freqs. Like,8 tracsk of SFX/melodic/perc elemnts supported by 3 layered kick drums, and a few layered basslines (even though none may be peaking anywhere near unity gain) just use your ears.

Then, render all tracks when you are done, import into your DAW, there is a great deal of headroom available. Even better, once you are there, replace and re-sequence your kicks with the same exact kicks (something I actually do) and feel the mule punch in your chest as your mix goes from being great to "holy shit"

before going with the audible test, are you sure this isn't what i just said before? It was VISIBLE on the meters that i got more headroom.

Anyway i'll try it, and if it really is like this with cubase (bah can't get a demo?) or sonar i'll purchase a copy of one or another. The thing i like most about live is the way you compose in it, session view just keeps amazing me.

I suppose i'll go dl the demo of Sonar

And sorry if you thought i was trying to annoy you with the comments in the last post, i was not.