BCF2000 SuperGurus I need your help!

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:55 am

Hi,

I recently purchased a brand new BCF2000.
Thanks to the posts here I learned pretty quickly how to use the MC-Cubase Mackie Emulation with Live and it's amazing. I can do almost everything without the mouse...
However, because the usage of MC-Cubase implies a lot of shift-press (two hands) I'm in the process to split all this functionalities across some presets. So I made one as a start but...when I select PAN, SEND, DEVICE mode for the V-POTS all works fine but I have to turn off V-POTS LED feedback to avoid getting crazy.
The only mode that works with all knobs is Relative3. As you know the MCU HUI protocol assigns a value of 1 for clockwise rotation and a value of 65 for counter clockwise rotation. This sure is the case when BCF2000 is started in MCU mode but when I try to emulate this in a simple preset it fails. If I move the Track Pan the value doesn't change in my BCF2000, if I display the LED rings and the values they never match what I see changing in Live.
If I switch off any form of feedback for the V-POTS (no Display, no Led Ring) everything works fine but I have to watch the monitor to have an idea of what value a control is or has reached, be it a Macro, Send or Pan. All works fine for push buttons & Faders. So how can I tweak this?

There must be a way because the crank heads at Behringer found one using MC-CU emulation mode.... I'm on Mac OS Tiger but I own VmWare Fusion (so far the only way to use BCEDIT successfully) so if you have in mind solutions that implies Win XP, let me know.

- Best
- Pasha

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:41 pm

wow you are a brave soul, programming your own mackie emulations after only one day!

sorry I can't help but I wish you good luck and godspeed

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:04 pm

longjohns wrote:wow you are a brave soul, programming your own mackie emulations after only one day!

sorry I can't help but I wish you good luck and godspeed

Thank you!

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:20 pm

and of course if you come up with a sensible arrangement of controls (which the behringer one is obviously not) then I'm sure you'll share

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:47 pm

longjohns wrote:and of course if you come up with a sensible arrangement of controls (which the behringer one is obviously not) then I'm sure you'll share

of course, I'm almost there.... if it wasn't for the missing LCD feedback I would have already share it. I wrote Behringer today... THE WAIT BEGINZ.

- Cheers
- Pasha

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:41 pm

Sorry, Pasha. No help from me either. I was quite pleased with the standard Mackie mode. Never really needed to tweak.

Good luck with your project!

-M

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:11 am

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:Sorry, Pasha. No help from me either. I was quite pleased with the standard Mackie mode. Never really needed to tweak.

Good luck with your project!

-M

Yep. It seems I'm not alone on this. Even the creator of BCR2000 MCU emulation switched off Knobs LED feedback. There's a way maybe to have feeback by flipping controls and use Faders instead.
I think I have to live with that. I'll keep you posted.
Wrote to Behringer no answer so far.
I think I'll create a SessionMCU, ArrangementMCU,ComposeMCU preset,
what do you think about it?

- Cheers
- Pasha

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:24 pm

personally I'd be after just a rearrangement of the existing behringer mackie emulation

the layout just doesn't make sense to me.

for example I have no interest in transport controls being on the BCF - I just use the computer keyboard for all that. so those buttons could be used for more of the mackie functions which are currently obscured in the shifted positions.

I would also cram all the FX editing buttons onto just two. I don't really use that function much, so I think it would be better to free up the default layer of two buttons. Besides, having FX edit stacked up with various other functions is weird

Select is nice, but I always regret not having rec-enable on a default row, so I might sacrifice select so that mute and rec are on the top rows..

etc

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:51 pm

longjohns wrote:personally I'd be after just a rearrangement of the existing behringer mackie emulation

the layout just doesn't make sense to me.

for example I have no interest in transport controls being on the BCF - I just use the computer keyboard for all that. so those buttons could be used for more of the mackie functions which are currently obscured in the shifted positions.

I would also cram all the FX editing buttons onto just two. I don't really use that function much, so I think it would be better to free up the default layer of two buttons. Besides, having FX edit stacked up with various other functions is weird

Select is nice, but I always regret not having rec-enable on a default row, so I might sacrifice select so that mute and rec are on the top rows..

etc

We're on the same page here.
Frankly speaking I like BCF2000 Mackie Emulation but sometimes it get really weird to shift-press...
After many googling I know what Mackie sends for each function, I'm only the last one doing that. The ideal mix board has:

Pan,Send A, Send B, Send X
Mute
Rec
Solo
Select Track
Volume Fader

But Live adds Session View so
You would like to have:

Cursor (up-down-left-right)
Fire Clip
Fire Scene

BCF hasn't got enough buttons for that. You have to use the encoder groups end V-Pots push capabilities. So I'm trying to map the majority party of Mixing functions to solve Session Mappings and Arrangement mappings that are different by design in two different presets. What gets me crazy is the unavailability of LED Ring Feedback when I use a Mackie-Like Preset while in all other modes (MC Emulation & Instant Mapping or Live MIDI Learn) they work flawlessly. The only walk around so far is to use the flip command to have faders reflect values. GRRRRRRRRR.

Be patient.... weekend is approaching and I can have something soon.
So you think that editing devices is crazy? I can have a preset aimed at device control so I'll split the Mackie in several ones. What's your feeling about?

- Best
- Pasha

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:01 pm

I just think that editing devices is easier with the mouse. for one thing, it ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES the BCview or lcxmu or huskervu... some viewer, otherwise you'll never know what you're doing paging through all those parameters...

I'd rather just suck it up and use the mouse and go right to what I want

if I want tactile control then it'll have to go to a rack's macro

now here's a powerful controller:

faders and right-side buttons hard-wired into the mackie emulation (except upper right 4 buttons)

upper right buttons reverted back to 4 encoder groups

three encoder groups incorporated into the mackie emulation (pan, send a, send b?) which follow the bank shifting...

and the last encoder group functions outside the mackie emulation and is used for Instant Mapping instead

wonder if it's possible. may require routing through 3rd party to sort out all the midi and bring it in over different ports..

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:06 pm

There are of course lots of other examples of weird and useless arrangements and functions on the behringer layout:

-why punch in and punch out are on different shift layers and not on adjacent keys..

-don't need RTA, easily covered by F10, same w/ clip/track view by F12

-prev/next FX page not on adjacent buttons

- why functionless button/shift combos are where they are..

etc

not trying to convince anyone of course

just listing some more stuff

and I realize that it's not necessarily behringer's fault, because it passes through the additional layer of how Live interprets and uses the mackie functions

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:07 pm

I think that what you're running up against is that the mackie emulation mode is different on a firmware level. iow, I don't think the functionality is necessarily there in the normal presets mode.. for led feedback etc.

maybe the key is to find a way to decompile the firmware updater, change the functions there..
?

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:53 am

I've been sick all weeked....

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:17 am

longjohns wrote:I think that what you're running up against is that the mackie emulation mode is different on a firmware level. iow, I don't think the functionality is necessarily there in the normal presets mode.. for led feedback etc.

maybe the key is to find a way to decompile the firmware updater, change the functions there..
?

Hi I have setup my BCF2000 in the following way:

4 Encoder Groups
No Edit Buttons (Assigned to Mackie)
No Preset Buttons (Assigned to Mackie)
No Led rings Feedback, No LCD Feedback, you can always Flip instead.

Buttons Upper row : Select
Buttons Lower row : Mute
Encoder Grp 1 Knobs : Mackie V-POTS (both Push & Rotate)
Encoder Grp 2 Knobs : (from left to right) Master Volume, 2,3,Toggle Arrangement/Session,Toggle Details,Arrange view Record,Zoom (Launch
Clip),Jog Wheel* + Launch Scene when Pushed
Encoder Grp 3 Knobs : Push to enable/disable Record
Encoder Grp 4 Knobs : Push to enable/disable Solo

Knobs in Grp 3 & 4 act like V-POTS but cannot be pushed to unleash standard functions, for this reason they are good candidates for MIDI Learn in Live.

Store,Learn,Edit,Exit:

Pan,Sends,Instrument,Flip

Preset : Bank -, Bank +

Assignable 4 buttons (lower right) : Page -, Page +, Play, Stop

General notes:

* Jog Wheel selects scene when in session mode and scrubs in Arrangement Mode (no need to ffwd or Rwd)

V-POTS starts in Pan mode even if you do not select Pan by pressing the relevant button. When you select Sends you can tweak all the sends you have in that track (the selected one). When selecting Instrument every knob can be pushed to edit that specific device (if you have 3 devices you can edit them one at the time). After the first push you enter Instrument Mode and the V-POTS work like knobs and if you press then you return to defaults (0).

BCF2000 accepts program changes so to change presets you have to send a Prg Change from 1-32 on Ch1.

What do you think?
I can manage to send you this tonight (I'm at work now)

- Best
- Pasha

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:50 pm

sounds interesting. I'd certainly like to check it out, but realistically it will be a few months before I am able to do so. (house torn apart w/ remodeling)

I'll PM you