is ReWire pointless ??

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:14 pm

popslut wrote:
blank wrote:What I'm telling is rewire is about sharing the same audio engine.

Sure the sound will still comes from reason but the master audio output will be the one of live ( for example ) and not the one from reason. This can make big difference.

With live 6 I was rewiring into protools to get advantage of the protools audio engine and the difference was there.

It's not like black and white but there is a difference.
Total rubbish.

When it comes to audio related matters, do you have to be so dismissive?

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:26 pm

thelike5 wrote:
When it comes to audio related matters, do you have to be so dismissive?

I don't limit myself to purely audio related matters - I'm dismissive of all forms of bullshit.

babkubwa · Post by **babkubwa** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:54 pm

Yhtomit wrote:With Spaces, Rewire is pretty cool. Also, I love how you could rewire Reason to about any host application and dont see a slightest change in the Activity Monitor/ task manager

\]

whats with spaces then? I don't really get it. whats wrong with alt tab? I may be missing something here?

BaRaKa Sound · Post by **BaRaKa Sound** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:33 pm

noisetonepause wrote:
BaRaKa Sound wrote:would recording it into live via rewire by merely recording from the slaves playback engine, thus making these recordings worse than actually rendering directly from say .. Fruityloops or Reason?
Why would there be any difference in quality?

Render engine being better than playback engine.

My argument is that I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that ReWire just spits the playback through to your master.. allowing you to record it.

But if I dont record thru the inputs (because rendering first with my slave would sound better)

If I leave the project 'Rewired' and hit render.. will my master (ableton) render everything including what is being 'sucked' thru from my slave ?

shotsi673 · Post by **shotsi673** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:48 am

blank wrote:What I'm telling is rewire is about sharing the same audio engine.

Sure the sound will still comes from reason but the master audio output will be the one of live ( for example ) and not the one from reason. This can make big difference.

With live 6 I was rewiring into protools to get advantage of the protools audio engine and the difference was there.

It's not like black and white but there is a difference.

I do the same with Logic as I have noticed others are doing and in this case Logic Studio's audio engine is much better than Live 7. This is why I do it, otherwise it would be much easier to stay in the Live environment, because rewiring does involve some hassling around. Don't get me wrong I still love Live but unfortunately it doesn't match the combination of Apple's OSX and Logic Studio in finishing things up.

blank · Post by **blank** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:56 am

popslut wrote:
thelike5 wrote:
When it comes to audio related matters, do you have to be so dismissive?
I don't limit myself to purely audio related matters - I'm dismissive of all forms of bullshit.

So, I' m ready to ear your point.

What's next ?

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:53 am

How is Logic Studio's audio engine better? Logic is still on 32 bit float, Live 7 has 64 bit mix summing. If you are having problems with Live's audio engine it's because you're using the wrong warping modes or some such, reverse phase tests have proven that the sound quality in Live is not worse than Cubase, Logic, Samplitude, Sonar and other so called 'serious' DAWS when warping is off.

I have Cubase and there is no difference between it and Live 6, which did not have the 64 bit summing. Live 7 has an enhanced audio engine although I can barely tell except for Sampler, Operator and EQ8 in HiQ mode sound slightly better.

There may be plugins you prefer in Logic for final mix purposes that enhance the raw sound in a way you like, but the actual audio engine itself is not better.

The reason for rewiring apps like Reason and Live should be because they offer different sounds and fx, not to bypass their own audio rendering. Unless, you want to use things like the Space Designer reverb and pitch correct or other tools that Logic has in the box that Live doesn't, then I understand rewiring, otherwise Live does not need to be run through another application to sound good. Live's new compressor kills the Logic compressor hands down too, they both have some advantages over each other.

BaRaKa Sound · Post by **BaRaKa Sound** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:25 am

leedsquietman wrote: Live does not need to be run through another application to sound good.

I just want to run acid into live and record tracks to mixdown in live however just worried that simply recording acid's playback into Live tracks might not be as good as just rendering in acid to begin with.

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:30 am

render in both... then listen...

[edited stupid shit out]

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:31 am

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

thelike5 · Post by **thelike5** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:33 am

thelike5 wrote:
popslut wrote:
blank wrote:What I'm telling is rewire is about sharing the same audio engine.

Sure the sound will still comes from reason but the master audio output will be the one of live ( for example ) and not the one from reason. This can make big difference.

With live 6 I was rewiring into protools to get advantage of the protools audio engine and the difference was there.

It's not like black and white but there is a difference.
Total rubbish.
When it comes to audio related matters, do you have to be so dismissive?

On Blank's setup, he simply heard a difference in the quality of the recording when using the protools engine. What's "total rubbish"about that?

You are so out of your element. I can't wait to your response.

shotsi673 · Post by **shotsi673** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:59 am

leedsquietman wrote:How is Logic Studio's audio engine better? ... Live is not worse than Cubase, Logic, Samplitude, Sonar and other so called 'serious' DAWS when warping is off.

I'll try with warping off and see but I would have thought that the warping facility in Live is what sets it apart from other DAWs.

The plugins that come with Live are useful but do not match the quality that Logic offers.

Anyway, it's horses for courses and for me Live 7 is my go to DAW to begin laying down my ideas. Nothing compares with it in this regard. The session view is hard to pass up once you get hooked. I use an iMac with a MOTU Ultralite which is no slouch in the preamp department. Maybe an Ableton rep might like to jump in here and give us their view.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:34 am

I'm not knocking Logic, it's a well featured DAW.

And you're right that one of the main uses for Live is it's warping, Live is great for warping and in a Live environment you notice it less, but Live does not use the best quality timestretching algorithms, ProTools LE 7.4 actually has a better quality algorithm as does Reaper.

BUt if you applied timestretching to audio in another DAW you would also find that the quality can sometimes take a hit.

I actually really like the effects in Live, except for the reverb. Logic's Space Designer is a nice reverb, the pitch shift is also nice. But the new compressor in Live 7 is better than Logic's compressor. Also EQ8 in HiQ mode is as good as the EQ in Logic too to my ears.

I understand your composition in one DAW (ie Live session view) and mixing in another DAW. I used to do that all the time with Live and Cubase SX3, until I really got deeper into Live and, esp. with Live 7, realized that I needed Cubase a whole lot less than I thought. Now I write and arrange everything in Live and mix about 85% of my tracks in it, only more complex passages with a need for Cubase's inline MIDI or extensive audio editing or songs with a 25 plus track count get mixed in Cubase now.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:02 am

leedsquietman wrote:If you are having problems with Live's audio engine it's because you're using the wrong warping modes or some such, reverse phase tests have proven that the sound quality in Live is not worse than Cubase, Logic, Samplitude, Sonar and other so called 'serious' DAWS when warping is off.

Exactly.

There's a difference between hearing a difference and there actually being a difference, you know. Your ears are affected by your brain, electronic adding machines are not.

I trust you know the story about a panel of wine tasters being served white wine coloured red. They all thought it was red wine.

If you want to rewire, fine. Just don't blame your perceived niggles with what you get out of Live on Live itself, when the oscilloscopes, the phase testings and scores of people who, you know, actually know how this stuff works, say that Live is not any better or worse than other audio software.

blank · Post by **blank** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:14 pm

noisetonepause wrote:
leedsquietman wrote:If you are having problems with Live's audio engine it's because you're using the wrong warping modes or some such, reverse phase tests have proven that the sound quality in Live is not worse than Cubase, Logic, Samplitude, Sonar and other so called 'serious' DAWS when warping is off.
Exactly.

There's a difference between hearing a difference and there actually being a difference, you know. Your ears are affected by your brain, electronic adding machines are not.

I trust you know the story about a panel of wine tasters being served white wine coloured red. They all thought it was red wine.

If you want to rewire, fine. Just don't blame your perceived niggles with what you get out of Live on Live itself, when the oscilloscopes, the phase testings and scores of people who, you know, actually know how this stuff works, say that Live is not any better or worse than other audio software.

I'm not talking about live 7 audio engine, I'm talking about the live 6 one vs the one on a protools tdm.

I'm not telling that live 6 audio engine was total krap. I'm not an audio engine genious but I feel like there is subtle difference between each avaible on the market

is ReWire pointless ??

Re: is ReWire pointless ??