What outboard gear do you use to warm your tracks

timbreland · Post by **timbreland** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:16 pm

Empirical Labs Fatso

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:21 pm

sweetjesus wrote:...its more about who's in the chair than what they tweak.

Amen to that. Give me a good engineer with crap gear over a bad engineer with everything, any day.

But somebody with ears and talent will squeeze way more out of a decent set of outboard than they will any combination of plugins you can assemble.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:28 pm

jesQuick wrote:
popslut wrote:

YESSSS! Sweet sounds from those two gems. (although not exactly budget gear).

Where are your sounds, man!? Need to hear what you have come up with, with those two pearls...

Best

-j

what are the two units in the pics ?
It's hard to believe both of you omitted that tidbit of info unknowingly.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:29 pm

popslut wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:...its more about who's in the chair than what they tweak.
Amen to that. Give me a good engineer with crap gear over a bad engineer with everything, any day.

But somebody with ears and talent will squeeze way more out of a decent set of outboard than they will any combination of plugins you can assemble.

agreed, but the cost is just way beyond most peoples reach unfortunately and the results with plugins are very releasable IMHO..

there are conflicting stuff out there too, for example your music and sound is very important. .. as i mentioned a real SSL Duende with the eq/dynamics code from their top end digital consoles just didnt have the right sound on electronic music that some VST plugins do.. that bite which for some styles and sounds is neccessary wasn't there..

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:14 pm

b0unce wrote:
what are the two units in the pics ?

The top one is a GML [George Massenburg Limited] 8200 EQ.

The other one is a PrismSound Maselec MEA-2.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:39 pm

popslut wrote:
b0unce wrote:
what are the two units in the pics ?
The top one is a GML [George Massenburg Limited] 8200 EQ.

The other one is a PrismSound Maselec MEA-2.

Cheers pops.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:40 pm

I just can't get behind the warm it up with this thingy debate. It's just me though. I can't quantify what it means in my head. I do use the Cranesong Phoenix plugs but it sounds like combined but convenient eq and tapey compression. Not a warmer

Isn't EQ a warmer if you take some high-end off something? Can bright also be warm?

I agree though that the high-voltage and tube gear that popslut digs is really great stuff. But I recommend using it on the input side to digital daw recording inputs and then mix it in the box and stay in there. Once you go digital, stay there, unless you want to freak a sound sounddesign style.

I dunno, i'm an audio punk ass for sure but I just don't subscribe to the magic box fairy.

Let me put it this way, I rather have a cheap eq in the correct settings position than a Neve 1073 in the wrong.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:01 pm

knotkranky wrote:I just can't get behind the warm it up with this thingy debate. It's just me though. I can't quantify what it means in my head. I do use the Cranesong Phoenix plugs but it sounds like combined but convenient eq and tapey compression. Not a warmer

Isn't EQ a warmer if you take some high-end off something? Can bright also be warm?

I agree though that the high-voltage and tube gear that popslut digs is really great stuff. But I recommend using it on the input side to digital daw recording inputs and then mix it in the box and stay in there. Once you go digital, stay there, unless you want to freak a sound sounddesign style.

I dunno, i'm an audio punk ass for sure but I just don't subscribe to the magic box fairy.

Let me put it this way, I rather have a cheap eq in the correct settings position than a Neve 1073 in the wrong.

thats what popslut and i both say, but we also say (him more than i) that if you have a 1073 and you know how to put it in the right settings it will sound a buttload better than any setting on any plugin

Deadbeat · Post by **Deadbeat** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:12 pm

Haven't posted in quite some time here but this is an interesting one. I have been having a lot of conversations with some very good producers of late who otherwise are very rational people trying to dissuade them from purchasing some incredibly expensive gear, both software based and outboard, which it is my strong opinion they simply don't need. My feelings on this have been based on a couple of recent experiences.

Firstly, I've had the chance to do some mixing recently using an analog mixer simply running multiple outs from the sound card and doing the actually mixing (or summing) analog, then running back into the computer, and my initial impression was that it made a huge difference to the "openness" or "spaciousness" of my mixes. A few months on though and I my feeling now is that you can achieve just as good a mix inside the box with proper gain staging and equalization as you can using an external mixer.

Secondly, I recently had the opportunity to try out the SSL Duende in our studio for several weeks which was mentioned earlier in this thread. I don't often suffer from gear lust but from everything I'd read and heard about this thing, from journalists and other producers who's opinion I highly respect I might add, I was sure it was going to really take my mixes to the next level. I spent hours tweaking the eqs and compressors to death, tried out endless combinations and chains, shaped the transients of every drum, and tried every secret recipe setting for the master bus compressor I could get my hands on. Result? I liked the mixes I'd initially done with the EQ8, Ableton Compressor, and the Sonalksis suite 100% better when I A/Bed them a few days later.

Truth be told I've never had the opportunity to sit down with an Neve desk and Manley or similar outboard gear for longer than a week at a time, but even with my limited experience and having done a lot of A/Bing of other peoples music comparing mixes pre and post outboard processing, I still feel very strongly that the ears and patience level of the mixer are the only factors that really matter in this area, and the tools used are almost completely irrelevant.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:14 pm

Ya know what's funny. I'll take ProTools HD for "mixing" over any neve or ssl w/ gucci outboard, any day of the week.

And i was raised on all that old stuff!

Not cuz i'm lazy, cuz it sounds better <runs away>

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:16 pm

knotkranky wrote:I just don't subscribe to the magic box fairy.

Quote of the week and my new sig.

Too many people trying to sell you the "magic box fairy" these days.

Too many people buying it too.

My first album was mixed with a Behringer compressor across the main buss.

Sounds fucking great.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:21 pm

what's the title of your first album ?
so that I may listen to it, with my ears.

Khazul · Post by **Khazul** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:25 pm

Sometimes some combo of SPL Vitalizer Mk2-T, SPL charisma and a dbx 1066 compressor.

I usually just use the charisma as an instrument insert.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:28 pm

popslut wrote:
knotkranky wrote:I just don't subscribe to the magic box fairy.
Quote of the week and my new sig.

Too many people trying to sell you the "magic box fairy" these days.

Too many people buying it too.

My first album was mixed with a Behringer compressor across the main buss.

Sounds fucking great.

Right?! I've got some smokin mixes from lousy odds too. I love beating them when that's all ya got.

I also love it when people who think "the studio" book a huge ssl room and put the assistant at the helm.
Especially when it inevitably sucks and they scratch their heads, lol.

popslut · Post by **popslut** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:34 pm

knotkranky wrote:Ya know what's funny. I'll take ProTools HD for "mixing" over any neve or ssl w/ gucci outboard, any day of the week.

And i was raised on all that old stuff!

Not cuz i'm lazy, cuz it sounds better <runs away>

I'd love to know the secret then because I've been trying to get a good ITB mix since the concept first arose and I've never managed it yet.

I know that, on paper anyway, my Nuendo mixing environment, with my Sonnox and Waves SSL and URS processors beats hands down my ageing old 64 input Soundtracs desk, with my motley collection of old Drawmer and DBx and fucking Behringer comps, and my horrible old Zoom and Yamaha and Deltalab fx boxes, but fuck me if every time I mix the same tune on my desk it blows the ITB version clean out of the water.

I'd LOVE to be able to do great sounding mixes ITB but they always sound weedy and insubstantial and lacking in definition and bite.

Like the difference between a real Minimoog and the Arturia Minimoog V - close, but no cigar.

The convenience and repeatability of the ITB concept is really alluring - TOTAL total recall for mixes - yes!

"I'm bored with this mix - I'll save it as it is and do a bit on the next tune."

Mixes you can come back to!!

No more working around a -50Db noise floor because my desk is ancient and badly needs an overhaul. No more running out of patch cords at the end of a mix. No more intermittent signal paths, crackles, farts, hums and buzzes.

If only it sounded any good.

Is it that I work at 44.1 khz? I have the CPU overhead to be able to go to 96 khz if it makes the difference. I'm running three RME Fireface 800's a the moment and they're more than up to the job.

If you can give me any pointers that could help me get rid of this dusty, hot, space consuming junk that clutters my studio I'd be more than grateful.

Please.