the biggest frustration using Live live....

[mwingerski]

I've been using Live as a host for synths and I have to say that changing sounds is a pain .

I would love to be able to send program changes via footpedal and have it change sounds like a synth or something... but that doesnt' seem to be an immediately obvious thing to do. Also, I'm really leery of running too many 3rd party apps. It seems like having more than 10 soft synths open at a time is enough to cause my powerbook g4 to have seizures, particularly on large sample patches. Adding more programs on to the mix feels like I'd be asking for even more glitches...

I do love the ability to trigger loads of samples though...
But more "Live" control would be awesome...

[forge]

Live is not so Live oriented anymore.

exactly - I mean how many friggin DAWs do we need - they're practically giving them away with Cereal - Live comes along and is THE ONLY program that did all this stuff and now it's trying to be another DAW

what do you mean? Its not like that feature was there & abandoned in favour of a linear DAW fuction

nah - I dont know - I think when Ableton used to call it a 'sequencer instrument' they really had that different vision that had an edge and it was like the whole concept was going in that direction

there are SO MANY things they could do to improve the real-time/Live side of it and IMO all of the DAW stuff should have come second to that - they have spent the last 3 versions putting in things that Other DAWs have instead of just making it an even better "sequencer instrument"

I've been involved in plenty of these debates, usually to ABleton's defence, and I'm holding on to the idea that Live 8 will probably address a lot of things, but I cant help thinking the vision has been a bit skewed


Like - most of the people who requested DAW features probably requested them because they had been using them in their other DAW - so, how about instead of putting them all in Live, how about making Live integrate better with the DAWs people already had - like full duplex rewire where you could still use VSTs in Live or something

I dont know, I am mostly pretty happy that these features are there, I just would have preferred to wait 4 versions for features that the other DAWs already have rather than features unique to Live that would make their advantage and uniqueness even better

[forge]

I just would have preferred to wait 4 versions for features that the other DAWs already have rather than features unique to Live that would make their advantage and uniqueness even better

this is the crux of it - if they are things I can do in another DAW (especially considering most of us probably already had one) then they are the things we should have to wait years and years for, not things that are crucial to the original vision of Live as a program for Live performance

I can see Ableton want their package to provide everything, but IMO they should have made their flagship product OUTSTANDING, rather than compromising everything and providing more of the general stuff

I think they would find most musicians would still want to own it because the real time aspect is so beneficial to music

anyway.....

[mikemc]

You can save poor forge's bent back, or you can turn the page...

lately I've been much more focused on setting up a Live rig and it's really hitting me like a vicious, jagged shard of misery that you cant select devices via MIDI or KEY

What is it exactly you want to do, because I'm not really sure from your description.

Why is it you need to select the devices?, and then someone might be able to suggest a workaround or different approach for adressing them for the reason you want to.

Use "KEY" assign. Assign a key, say "x", to the little round on/off switch on a device in a track, in the upper left hand corner. Do some stuff, press the key, device does not go on/off.

Use MIDI assign, assign a CC to the same switch, you're golden.

My $0.02 is that Live should build in a midi'utility' effect that allows the assignment of usb hid and keyboard button presses to midi.

[hambone1]

I wish the Abes would split the DAW stuff away from Live and call it something else.

I thought it was called Live cuz it was meant to be played... er... Live!

[forge]

I wish the Abes would split the DAW stuff away from Live and call it something else.

I thought it was called Live cuz it was meant to be played... er... Live!

yeah - thing is everyone I meet just wants Live to be their Live app - almost everyone says "I use [something else] in the studio"

[Tarekith]

Just a plus 1 on the original post, this is a huge frustration for me too. One reason I want the "change focus" option in mdi map, as mentioned in the feature wishlist forum.

[forge]

lately I've been much more focused on setting up a Live rig and it's really hitting me like a vicious, jagged shard of misery that you cant select devices via MIDI or KEY

What is it exactly you want to do, because I'm not really sure from your description.

Why is it you need to select the devices?, and then someone might be able to suggest a workaround or different approach for adressing them for the reason you want to.

I use Instant mapping with Macros a lot - it is a brilliant concept that has been crippled

it gives us the ability to instantly map 8 encoders on our controller to the 8 macros of the device selected

but to get to the device you have to go on the screen and find the device and select it - and by the time you've done that you might as well just do it with the mouse

one of the only alternatives is to have 6 controllers locked to specific devices - again defeating one of the key objectives

but even the instant mapping is seriously lacking because you can only use it in a sane way Live by mapping macros - trying to remember the arbitrary layout for each instrument or effect is just not realistic

the more I am typing and thinking about this the more bewildering I think it is

It seems like the aim of Live 7 was to go head to head with the existing DAWs - it's a battle they can only lose - the whole reason Ableton is even a contender is because of what they did differently

because they were the ONLY ONES making a proper Live application

and Live 7 seems to have been all about trying to catch up with the others

as Long as Ableton are trying to catch up with the others they will lose, they HAVE to focus totally on the things they do differntly

my 2c

sorry if I sound disillusioned...well... i kind of am

[Meef Chaloin]

Just a plus 1 on the original post, this is a huge frustration for me too. One reason I want the "change focus" option in mdi map, as mentioned in the feature wishlist forum.

no doubt it will be included in v8 but it will be the only free feature next to more payware synths & sample sections. ANd it will be touted as a feature rather than something that should've been there ages ago.

i do agree with some of the comments here. I wouldnt like to see it split though, you would have to pay twice just to have the same as we do now in one...i can actually see them thinking about that. Im on 6.10 still & use it both live and as a regular sequencer so most features are welcome for me.

[Martyn]

As Long as Ableton are trying to catch up with the others they will lose, they HAVE to focus totally on the things they do differently

This is very true.

I use Live primarily as a DAW but I've set out many times to try to create a "live set", I just can't get my head around it at all. I'm not content with just djing clips and can't really afford much in the way of controllers, so being able to switch instruments and change (shock horror in 2008) prog change data is the only real live aspect that interests me.

It's a good DAW though, apart from the shit midi spec.

[forge]

Just a plus 1 on the original post, this is a huge frustration for me too. One reason I want the "change focus" option in mdi map, as mentioned in the feature wishlist forum.

no doubt it will be included in v8 but it will be the only free feature next to more payware synths & sample sections. ANd it will be touted as a feature rather than something that should've been there ages ago.

i do agree with some of the comments here. I wouldnt like to see it split though, you would have to pay twice just to have the same as we do now in one...i can actually see them thinking about that. Im on 6.10 still & use it both live and as a regular sequencer so most features are welcome for me.

well, really I'm holding out on the assumption that Live 8 will solve a lot of this - and now is the time to hammer the point home because it wont be long before the features of Live 8 will be locked in if they aren't already

this thread is just a big, solid, picket line style vote that they take the 'DAW features' part of the big wishlist and stick it in a file somewhere and forget about it for a couple of years and go back to focusing on being a Live application

let me just give a little example of what I'm talking about


.........


You are on stage playing in front of people, trying to manage a set and keep focused on the very few different parameters your brain can handle when on stage, shaking from nerves, just hoping none of your equipment fails

you open the inline rack mixer, then you open the multi-lane automation, then you go and look at the Analog interface...... WHAT...THE...FUCK????????

the thing that gave Ableton their advantage was simplicity - if there is one thing these features are not it is simple

when you are on stage you have enough to think about, you dont need to get lost in your software


(ooh it;s all coming out now.... )

[mikemc]

it gives us the ability to instantly map 8 encoders on our controller to the 8 macros of the device selected

but to get to the device you have to go on the screen and find the device and select it - and by the time you've done that you might as well just do it with the mouse

this is maybe just quasi-intellectual spewage but anyway:

there are these dominant "mainstream electronic instrument performance paradigms": the guitarist and the keyboardist.

1) The guitarist selects effects from a pedal board just by looking at them, and then turns one off or on using a footswitch, and might adjust some aspect of the effect's output using a variable controller pedal.

2) The keyboardist manually selects presets or patches on the keyboard, and then may also modify these with a knob or two (pitch bend, mod wheel, other parameter adjust) as he is playing.

In both of the above, an instrumentalist approaches the application of these effects as more secondary to actually playing the notes on the instrument, if he/she ceases to play the notes in order to better adjust the effects, the music stops.

3) Not being an instrumentalist, the DJ is not as intermeshed with the generation of the music per se, the 'record is spinning' (clip is playing, etc) and will continue to generate music unless otherwise interrupted as opposed to requiring constant interaction to keep the music going. So the DJ is controlling applied effects with both hands and even feet, as more of the primary aspect of that performance, having the advantage of modifying multiple parameters of the effects as the record/clip progresses.

I think that Live promises to provide a way to use a combination of these models to great effect, and at the same time to some extent all of us who use it are struggling with combining these techinques. I think that the frustration comes less from Live being more "DAW-like", but from focusing more on the third model above (which of course they win all the awards for).

[forge]

I think that Live promises to provide a way to use a combination of these models to great effect, and at the same time to some extent all of us who use it are struggling with combining these techinques. I think that the frustration comes less from Live being more "DAW-like", but from focusing more on the third model above (which of course they win all the awards for).

that's a good point

but ask any of the DJs here or on the ALDJ forums and they'll have a few things to say

really, the thing is they are SO CLOSE!

I just think -for me personally I've been using the other programs since the days when computers could only do MIDI - so when I cam to Live I wasn't looking for another program to just do what the ones I was doing did, I wanted a Live application that was different

then what happened, as I'm sure did with many others, is I realised it also made writing music a lot better.

the crucial point is that that relisation was secondary to the main purpose - I got it for Live use then used it for production as well, but it was always called Live - in fact it was a "sequencer instrument!" I loved that concept and miss it a lot.

[kabuki]

There is an idea on the Feature Wishlist forum about a customisable interface view. It was gleaned from Mainstage.

You build a window of icons (knobs, sliders, Keyboards, Pads, buttons). You pick their scale and layout. You label them and you can choose their FONT SIZE. You can choose their color... and they can change according to what instrument you are controlling... what a great idea that would help so many people. Add to that a Program (Instrument) change row, and you are in business...

PLEASE, ableton. PLEASE.

[synnack]

http://www.ableton.com/user-survey

Fill out the survey. They ask for your top 3 feature requests.