I don't recall the thread. when a n00b won't listen and people are trying to talk some sense I tune out, let others deal with it.
Warping only works in Ableton? Prob a double post
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doc holiday
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Alright, here's the reply I had for Laird before I realized there were a ton of replies while I was typing:
I very much realize that Torq and Ableton don't communicate with one another. And I believe I am using Torq properly (although I've only had it a couple months). The problem lies in the fact that my source material is VINYL. Any DJ knows that two perfectly synced records will only stay beatmatched for maybe 2 minutes at best without nudging. The main reason for this is that the turntable's platter is not rotating at an exact speed from beginning of song to end (also known as "wow"). Its slightly speeding up and/or slowing down--the problem is exacerbated when you consider that the lathe which cut the record, the medium it was recorded on, and the musician who performed it may all display these characteristics. So, although the speed changes may not be immediately audible, when viewed as a wave file beneath, for example, Torq's "phase grid", the wave's inherently sloppy downbeats wander away from the phase grid's absolutely rigid downbeat markers. Now the phase grid CAN be shifted (but not stretched) to line up with the downbeats. I'm trying to make the downbeats of my wave files conform to Torq's phase grid. I also realize that the warp markers stay within Ableton--I've never NOT realized that. I'm trying to change the original file permanently so that the timing stays corrected outside of Ableton. I'm not talking about tempo; I'm talking about TIMING. That's all I need Ableton for at the moment and I assume this is possible, maybe not.
"If you saved the audio file WITH the tempo markers, isn't this a .trq file?????"
There's not really any file saving in Torq, per say. It never asks you if you want to save anything. Its just like a pair of decks that remember the last settings for the files that its played--mainly quick que points and phase grid alignment.
--Let me add that the purpose of the phase grid is for automatic beat syncing of 2 tracks. Torq really only syncs its 2 phase grids--the wave files scrolling along beneath them will only be in sync for as long as their downbeats conform to the downbeat markers on the grid.
I understand that its hard to wrap your head around a program you've never even used, but I don't know how to make it any clearer...though I do appreciate your attempt.
I very much realize that Torq and Ableton don't communicate with one another. And I believe I am using Torq properly (although I've only had it a couple months). The problem lies in the fact that my source material is VINYL. Any DJ knows that two perfectly synced records will only stay beatmatched for maybe 2 minutes at best without nudging. The main reason for this is that the turntable's platter is not rotating at an exact speed from beginning of song to end (also known as "wow"). Its slightly speeding up and/or slowing down--the problem is exacerbated when you consider that the lathe which cut the record, the medium it was recorded on, and the musician who performed it may all display these characteristics. So, although the speed changes may not be immediately audible, when viewed as a wave file beneath, for example, Torq's "phase grid", the wave's inherently sloppy downbeats wander away from the phase grid's absolutely rigid downbeat markers. Now the phase grid CAN be shifted (but not stretched) to line up with the downbeats. I'm trying to make the downbeats of my wave files conform to Torq's phase grid. I also realize that the warp markers stay within Ableton--I've never NOT realized that. I'm trying to change the original file permanently so that the timing stays corrected outside of Ableton. I'm not talking about tempo; I'm talking about TIMING. That's all I need Ableton for at the moment and I assume this is possible, maybe not.
"If you saved the audio file WITH the tempo markers, isn't this a .trq file?????"
There's not really any file saving in Torq, per say. It never asks you if you want to save anything. Its just like a pair of decks that remember the last settings for the files that its played--mainly quick que points and phase grid alignment.
--Let me add that the purpose of the phase grid is for automatic beat syncing of 2 tracks. Torq really only syncs its 2 phase grids--the wave files scrolling along beneath them will only be in sync for as long as their downbeats conform to the downbeat markers on the grid.
I understand that its hard to wrap your head around a program you've never even used, but I don't know how to make it any clearer...though I do appreciate your attempt.
If the program "remembers", its saving some information somewhere.fabaradj wrote: "If you saved the audio file WITH the tempo markers, isn't this a .trq file?????"
There's not really any file saving in Torq, per say. It never asks you if you want to save anything. Its just like a pair of decks that remember the last settings for the files that its played--mainly quick que points and phase grid alignment.
Again, I ask, could this information be a .trq file?
Well thats mighty big of you
I understand that its hard to wrap your head around a program you've never even used, but I don't know how to make it any clearer...though I do appreciate your attempt.
If you Warp in live, and the timing is correct inside Live (how are you determining you are in fact Warping correctly?), and then you render your file...
This should freeze the changes your Warp markers made to the recordings.
The same way Consolidating will "freeze" these changes.
You claim this doesn't work, which to me sounds like you either did it wrong, or Torq can't detect tempo very well.
Tone Deft, thanks for taking the hit.
doc holiday, thanks, I'm gonna try that when I get a chance--I'm in the middle of building a massive (well, massive to me) audio workstation in my spare bedroom. Booze, ephedrine and a friend made me start it on a whim the weekend after I started this topic. So now I'm all caught up in that too.
doc holiday, thanks, I'm gonna try that when I get a chance--I'm in the middle of building a massive (well, massive to me) audio workstation in my spare bedroom. Booze, ephedrine and a friend made me start it on a whim the weekend after I started this topic. So now I'm all caught up in that too.
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doc holiday
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One more thought.
Are you aware Live is non-destructive?
If you record your tiesto song from vinyl, you'll have a file called tiesto.wav
Now you can open this up in Live and Warp it to make it better. Timing, tempo, whatever you want.
If you hit Render, you will be saving a new file. Name it TiestoWarped.wav
If you hit COnsolidate, Live will save a new file inside the /teisto/audio project folder. Maybe something like tiesto_1.wav
If you open up tiesto.wav in Torq, then yes! Of course the timing is off. Its the original file.
but TiestoWarped.wav or Tiesto_1.wav should be just fine.
If not, then your problem is bad Torq.
I'll betcha, though, that when Toreq opens up Tiesto.wav, it saves a file called tiesto.trq so that it can "remember".,
Are you aware Live is non-destructive?
If you record your tiesto song from vinyl, you'll have a file called tiesto.wav
Now you can open this up in Live and Warp it to make it better. Timing, tempo, whatever you want.
If you hit Render, you will be saving a new file. Name it TiestoWarped.wav
If you hit COnsolidate, Live will save a new file inside the /teisto/audio project folder. Maybe something like tiesto_1.wav
If you open up tiesto.wav in Torq, then yes! Of course the timing is off. Its the original file.
but TiestoWarped.wav or Tiesto_1.wav should be just fine.
If not, then your problem is bad Torq.
I'll betcha, though, that when Toreq opens up Tiesto.wav, it saves a file called tiesto.trq so that it can "remember".,
Yeah, I know about the non-destructive thing, Laird. In fact, I've been renaming them almost exactly the way you've described. Actually, I think you hit on it yesterday when you suggested that Torq has a problem with tempo. If I remember correctly, Torq's browser was displaying slightly inaccurate bpms to the files that had been warped. I'm now thinking that these inaccurate bpms are the bpms from the original unwarped files and somehow--even though I'm renaming the files and deleting the .trq--Torq is still recognizing the warped file and assigning it the old tempo. So, I think that I have been warping and saving the files properly from the beginning, but Torq is setting the phase grid to the wrong bpm, which explains the wandering. It still seems impossible that Torq could associate two differently named files, but I've had similar problems with Windows Media Player, and when combing through threads on the wish list section of Torq's forum, there was I guy who wanted Torq to have the ability to read ID3v2 tags...I wonder if he's had similar issues.
The problem seems so obvious now, but being so unfamiliar with both of these programs combined with the the fact that I had invested sooo many hours between recording these records, wave editing, warping, etc....When I actually started playing around with these tracks in Torq and thought that my Ableton sessions were a complete wash, I was a bit...um...livid and I knew from experience that coming to this forum, as a noob, was gonna be like jumping into the snake pit. So, sorry if I came off like an asshole at times, but I just wasn't in the mood for anybody's shit.
Well anyways, I'm now pretty confident that I've been using Ableton properly, I just need to straighten out Torq.
Oh yeah, Laird, you asked earlier how I know if I'm warping correctly: I've set up a 4 / 4 reference beat loop in operator (I didn't know about impulse at the time, but it works fine).
The problem seems so obvious now, but being so unfamiliar with both of these programs combined with the the fact that I had invested sooo many hours between recording these records, wave editing, warping, etc....When I actually started playing around with these tracks in Torq and thought that my Ableton sessions were a complete wash, I was a bit...um...livid and I knew from experience that coming to this forum, as a noob, was gonna be like jumping into the snake pit. So, sorry if I came off like an asshole at times, but I just wasn't in the mood for anybody's shit.
Well anyways, I'm now pretty confident that I've been using Ableton properly, I just need to straighten out Torq.
Oh yeah, Laird, you asked earlier how I know if I'm warping correctly: I've set up a 4 / 4 reference beat loop in operator (I didn't know about impulse at the time, but it works fine).
Well, being a first-time poster here, I tried to come in as humble as possible. But I was dreading the onslaught of arbitrary, smart-ass comments, subject-changers, condescension, patronage, etc. So as soon as I read the first response (yours) it set the tone and everyone seemed to pile on. I totally knew it was gonna happen--that noob trial by fire thing. You have to understand how frustrated I was, even though I didn't convey that in my original post. Anyways, I'm not mad at all...NOW.longjohns wrote:while my post was completely unhelpful,
it did directly and correctly answer your question!
And it wasn't really meant to be offensive, you set yourself up for that post!
I gotta say though, I'd take any Ableton guy with me into a dark alley over a Reason guy any day, but if I walk out all bloody, I'm gonna need that Reason guy to patch me up--they seem way nicer over there based on first impressions. You guys are like the heavy machine-gunners; they're like the medics...
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gaijin1717
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gaijin1717
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