Updates from Afghanistan

[landrvr1]

Don't start Olga,, your obviously a fuckin' twat.
Have you read Deuteronomy?
Have you read numbers or Leviticus??

Heh.

Good point.

However,

I'm hard pressed to think of the last time a woman was stoned to death for adultry anywhere west of Berlin.

Does that mean I think that we in the West are somehow morally superior? Nope. Not at all.

It simply means that we in the West (with the exception of those pesky Amish) are probably going to arrive at that bitchin' Star Trek Utopia future faster than most. Where there's tons of cool shit, no one gets caught up in religious bullshit, and men feel comfortable wearing really tight jumpsuits.

The Islamic fanatics and Amish will get there. Of that I've no doubt.

The Amish will need to embrace the future and stop trying to turn back the clock via wishful thinking.

The Islamic fanatics will need to embrace the future and stop trying to turn back the clock via beheadings, stonings, and suicide bombings.

They can do it. I know they can. Acceptance and tolerance is hard for anyone to embrace. There will be tough choices to be made. But it's all going to be worth it.

Remember, Captain Picard is waiting.



And just so everyone is clear, there's no stoning allowed on the Enterprise.












...

[landrvr1]

I'm really being very ethnocentric in my last post; with the use of the term 'West'.

I amend my statement to include our brothers and sisters in the East as well. China, Japan, Vietnam, etc. All of you guys are just as fucked up as we are in the West, but at least you've embraced cool gadgetry.

[Machinesworking]

, I'm a girl but you seem like more of a little bitch than me.

Nope, sorry, I'm pretty sure that title belongs to you. There's no point in me trying to persuade you to be reasonable since it's obvious that you're not interested in a reasonable conversation. I'll try though.

Your arguments are weak for the simple reason that you're going after what? that western culture is a little more advanced? What the hell does that have to do with the west breaking numerous agreements with the people in the middle east? What does that have to do with CIA intervention into their politics in Iran, military coups installing dictators ( the sha of Iran ), heavy funding for both sides in the Iran Iraq war, obvious military advances that are geared towards economic interests in the area like the US invading Iraq, the last fucking country in the middle east that Bin ladin would possibly be in? How about Saudi Arabia? our buddies are stoning women to death, but somehow that's OK by us, but the Palestinians are muslim whack jobs.....

Now, just for one fucking second put yourself in the shoes of an arab, and ask yourself as you look at all this, why on earth would you want anything to do with western culture? From their perspective it must look manipulative, power hungry, and greedy, I don't doubt that for a second.

For another second realize that not all muslim sects are fundamentalist, not all are anti womans rights. Just like christianity it has it's hard line idiots, and it's more moderate followers. If you think I'm wrong, think about this, 1 billion people are muslim. If they all were as blood thirsty as you make them out to be, then the USA would be a war zone right now. It's not because the muslim religion is like the rest, up to interpretation.
New Testament has it's share of bloody sections, don't fucking kid yourself. The other day while browsing the dammed thing I found a section where Jesus tells his followers to kill. The thing is just as much a mess as the rest, but it's easier to point fingers at people you are interested in exploiting the resources of and cry wolf. The west, and white man, have a god complex, and until we get over it, we will use any excuse we can to dominate the rest of the planet.

TL;DR You are being emotionally manipulated to validate war and domination of the sweet crude oil reserves in the middle east. Funny part is you're attacking the human rights abuse of disenfranchised people in the name of moral high ground while your political leaders are dumping money at stone tossing Saudis. Nice job defending the west there.

[landrvr1]

Sigh. Speaking of Emotionally Manipulated...

What so often gets lost in these discussions is the Average Joe. Let's take a moment and reflect, shall we? It'll only be a second, then we can all get back to using Wiki history to bolster our meaningless and extremist positions.

Most folks in the Middle East are fairly progressive and enlightened. Don't kid yourselves. They know the score. The rampant anti-American sentiments are 99.9% media driven. Fox and Al Jazeera both play the same footage of a group of extremists burning an American flag. Their intent and reason for showing the same clip couldn't be more different, but both are designed to do one thing: manipulate people's emotions and play upon their basic human need to hate the other tribe.

Are they happy about American or European involvment in their affairs? Nope. Just like the average dude in Lebanon isn't happy when Syria meddles in Lebanese affairs; which happens, well, about every hour on the hour. The bad news is that America meddles in the affairs of Middle Eastern countries. The bad news is that every other country in the Middle East meddles with every other country in the Middle East. The notion that this naughty behaviour is exclusive to the USA, or even that we are the biggest culprits, is titanically stupid. That kind of thinking pretty much happens to people that only get their news from the Huffingtonpost, Truthdig, or NPR. We propped up and supported the Shah. True enough. We've done a lot of other stupid shit in that part of the world, don't ya know. But I could go on for 239 pages with examples of how Egypt or Saudi Arabia has manipulated events elsewhere in the region. Does Egypt have the right to meddle in the politics of Jordan just because they're in the same rough geographic neighborhood? I think not. The moral of this paragraph is that while it's great fun (and so easy, really) to poke the guilty stick at America, there's plenty of blame to go around.

If any of you have spent even a bit of time in Lebanon, especially just before the recent Israeli dust up, you would know that most of the people there are pretty representative of the average Arab citizen. They love their culture, love their respective religions; yet also aren't afraid or threatened by elements of Western culture. They dig a lot of Western music, love iPods. Most aren't exactly crazy about Israel, but certainly aren't about to strap bombs to their chests and head for a market in Tel Aviv either. They are hopeful that the shit will work itself out, and put faith (probably misguided) in their leadership. The extremists in Lebanon and Israel see it differently. They want change, and they want it their way. At the point of a gun.

Dubai is another example. It's an absolute hot bed of progressive views; at least by Middle Eastern standards. It's the new Hong Kong, the new London, the new New York of the Middle East. I can barely think of a city in that part of the world that doesn't feel more Western. It's as cosmopolitan as London; with dozens upon dozens of people from all walks of life; getting together to live and do business. The Israeli lawyer. The Egyptian trader. The French software developer. The Chinese factory owner. It's a place that represents, in many ways, what the entire Middle East could be like. A place of relative tolerance and acceptance; where there's a rule of law and business that isn't mandated by the Mullahs. Of course, that's exactly why Islamic extremists hate the place. To them it represents everything that is evil. They look at Dubai and see nothing but Western culture polluting the great Muslim religious gene pool. And they are willing to do something about it. At the point of a gun, of course.

That's not to say that there isn't some strange shit going on in Dubai as well. It's a big money laundering center. Bizarre sex slave trade shit getting out of hand. The government there does, for the record, subscribe to the Israel boycott. Of course, that doesn't stop them from allowing Israel to do business in Dubai. The ban is symbolic and political. It's allows Dubai to look cool in the eyes of it's UAE buddies ("hey, we hate the Jews as much as anyone!") while at the same time allowing the Israeli firms to take part in the capitalist fun.

It's not that these two places and peoples have embraced the West (though that's how the extremists see it, of course). What they have embraced is a willingness to move on. A willingness to not walk but RUN into the 21st century. (Dubai is constructing the new world's tallest building for fuck's sake.) A willingness to step up and take their rightful place in Starfleet when the time comes.

[Moody]

We are all slaves under some guise. Until we figure out how to break these chains as a single entity we will continue to rule and be ruled under false truth.

[Olga]

, I'm a girl but you seem like more of a little bitch than me.

Nope, sorry, I'm pretty sure that title belongs to you. There's no point in me trying to persuade you to be reasonable since it's obvious that you're not interested in a reasonable conversation. I'll try though.

Your arguments are weak for the simple reason that you're going after what? that western culture is a little more advanced? What the hell does that have to do with the west breaking numerous agreements with the people in the middle east? What does that have to do with CIA intervention into their politics in Iran, military coups installing dictators ( the sha of Iran ), heavy funding for both sides in the Iran Iraq war, obvious military advances that are geared towards economic interests in the area like the US invading Iraq, the last fucking country in the middle east that Bin ladin would possibly be in? How about Saudi Arabia? our buddies are stoning women to death, but somehow that's OK by us, but the Palestinians are muslim whack jobs.....

Now, just for one fucking second put yourself in the shoes of an arab, and ask yourself as you look at all this, why on earth would you want anything to do with western culture? From their perspective it must look manipulative, power hungry, and greedy, I don't doubt that for a second.

For another second realize that not all muslim sects are fundamentalist, not all are anti womans rights. Just like christianity it has it's hard line idiots, and it's more moderate followers. If you think I'm wrong, think about this, 1 billion people are muslim. If they all were as blood thirsty as you make them out to be, then the USA would be a war zone right now. It's not because the muslim religion is like the rest, up to interpretation.
New Testament has it's share of bloody sections, don't fucking kid yourself. The other day while browsing the dammed thing I found a section where Jesus tells his followers to kill. The thing is just as much a mess as the rest, but it's easier to point fingers at people you are interested in exploiting the resources of and cry wolf. The west, and white man, have a god complex, and until we get over it, we will use any excuse we can to dominate the rest of the planet.

TL;DR You are being emotionally manipulated to validate war and domination of the sweet crude oil reserves in the middle east. Funny part is you're attacking the human rights abuse of disenfranchised people in the name of moral high ground while your political leaders are dumping money at stone tossing Saudis. Nice job defending the west there.

I agree with 90% of this. My point was not the moral high ground. And I looked up what you looked up in the new testament with jesus take up the sword and all that. Thats really stretching it to compare that equally to the Qur'an imo. If other religions were in their churches/places of worship advocating violence all the time I'd agree but that is not the case. I found this this morning and it explains what I believe is the truth about the religion. An author, 2 scholars and an ex terrorist member of the PLO explain it out quite well.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0

[Moody]

, I'm a girl but you seem like more of a little bitch than me.

Nope, sorry, I'm pretty sure that title belongs to you. There's no point in me trying to persuade you to be reasonable since it's obvious that you're not interested in a reasonable conversation. I'll try though.

Your arguments are weak for the simple reason that you're going after what? that western culture is a little more advanced? What the hell does that have to do with the west breaking numerous agreements with the people in the middle east? What does that have to do with CIA intervention into their politics in Iran, military coups installing dictators ( the sha of Iran ), heavy funding for both sides in the Iran Iraq war, obvious military advances that are geared towards economic interests in the area like the US invading Iraq, the last fucking country in the middle east that Bin ladin would possibly be in? How about Saudi Arabia? our buddies are stoning women to death, but somehow that's OK by us, but the Palestinians are muslim whack jobs.....

Now, just for one fucking second put yourself in the shoes of an arab, and ask yourself as you look at all this, why on earth would you want anything to do with western culture? From their perspective it must look manipulative, power hungry, and greedy, I don't doubt that for a second.

For another second realize that not all muslim sects are fundamentalist, not all are anti womans rights. Just like christianity it has it's hard line idiots, and it's more moderate followers. If you think I'm wrong, think about this, 1 billion people are muslim. If they all were as blood thirsty as you make them out to be, then the USA would be a war zone right now. It's not because the muslim religion is like the rest, up to interpretation.
New Testament has it's share of bloody sections, don't fucking kid yourself. The other day while browsing the dammed thing I found a section where Jesus tells his followers to kill. The thing is just as much a mess as the rest, but it's easier to point fingers at people you are interested in exploiting the resources of and cry wolf. The west, and white man, have a god complex, and until we get over it, we will use any excuse we can to dominate the rest of the planet.

TL;DR You are being emotionally manipulated to validate war and domination of the sweet crude oil reserves in the middle east. Funny part is you're attacking the human rights abuse of disenfranchised people in the name of moral high ground while your political leaders are dumping money at stone tossing Saudis. Nice job defending the west there.

I agree with 90% of this. My point was not the moral high ground. And I looked up what you looked up in the new testament with jesus take up the sword and all that. Thats really stretching it to compare that equally to the Qur'an imo. If other religions were in their churches/places of worship advocating violence all the time I'd agree but that is not the case. I found this this morning and it explains what I believe is the truth about the religion. An author, 2 scholars and an ex terrorist member of the PLO explain it out quite well.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0

In what passage/s of the bible does Jesus say take up your sword?

[Tone Deft]

kind of off point (I ain't reading 100 word essays from the likes of Olga).. the old testament, lots of fucking, sodomy, murders, lies, all that stuff.
the not funny thing is that when religions have something in common, it's the old testament.


MW - Olga's not worth your time. seriously.

"who's the fool? the fool or the fool that follows the fool?"
-some guy who said 'curious.'

[Moody]

kind of off point (I ain't reading 100 word essays from the likes of Olga).. the old testament, lots of fucking, sodomy, murders, lies, all that stuff.
the not funny thing is that when religions have something in common, it's the old testament.


MW - Olga's not worth your time. seriously.

"who's the fool? the fool or the fool that follows the fool?"
-some guy who said 'curious.'

Jesus and the Old Testament are 2 seperate things to my knowledge. One existed before the other. Exactly why I am questioning her response to the other guys responnse to her response.

Jesus said put up your sword. (If he ever said that at all.)

[Tone Deft]

I realized too late that it was a Jesus specific debate going on. didn't he say 'he who is without sin can get stoned first'? something like that...

[Moody]

I realized too late that it was a Jesus specific debate going on. didn't he say 'he who is without sin can get stoned first'? something like that...

Absolutely, if he ever existed at all. Supposedly he also said to Peter to put up your sword for those who live by the sword will perish by the sword.

Anyways, just thought it was funny.

[Olga]

Nope, sorry, I'm pretty sure that title belongs to you. There's no point in me trying to persuade you to be reasonable since it's obvious that you're not interested in a reasonable conversation. I'll try though.

Your arguments are weak for the simple reason that you're going after what? that western culture is a little more advanced? What the hell does that have to do with the west breaking numerous agreements with the people in the middle east? What does that have to do with CIA intervention into their politics in Iran, military coups installing dictators ( the sha of Iran ), heavy funding for both sides in the Iran Iraq war, obvious military advances that are geared towards economic interests in the area like the US invading Iraq, the last fucking country in the middle east that Bin ladin would possibly be in? How about Saudi Arabia? our buddies are stoning women to death, but somehow that's OK by us, but the Palestinians are muslim whack jobs.....

Now, just for one fucking second put yourself in the shoes of an arab, and ask yourself as you look at all this, why on earth would you want anything to do with western culture? From their perspective it must look manipulative, power hungry, and greedy, I don't doubt that for a second.

For another second realize that not all muslim sects are fundamentalist, not all are anti womans rights. Just like christianity it has it's hard line idiots, and it's more moderate followers. If you think I'm wrong, think about this, 1 billion people are muslim. If they all were as blood thirsty as you make them out to be, then the USA would be a war zone right now. It's not because the muslim religion is like the rest, up to interpretation.
New Testament has it's share of bloody sections, don't fucking kid yourself. The other day while browsing the dammed thing I found a section where Jesus tells his followers to kill. The thing is just as much a mess as the rest, but it's easier to point fingers at people you are interested in exploiting the resources of and cry wolf. The west, and white man, have a god complex, and until we get over it, we will use any excuse we can to dominate the rest of the planet.

TL;DR You are being emotionally manipulated to validate war and domination of the sweet crude oil reserves in the middle east. Funny part is you're attacking the human rights abuse of disenfranchised people in the name of moral high ground while your political leaders are dumping money at stone tossing Saudis. Nice job defending the west there.

I agree with 90% of this. My point was not the moral high ground. And I looked up what you looked up in the new testament with jesus take up the sword and all that. Thats really stretching it to compare that equally to the Qur'an imo. If other religions were in their churches/places of worship advocating violence all the time I'd agree but that is not the case. I found this this morning and it explains what I believe is the truth about the religion. An author, 2 scholars and an ex terrorist member of the PLO explain it out quite well.



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0

In what passage/s of the bible does Jesus say take up your sword?

This ones wiki but it has the passages which can be looked up. Doesn't really say 'take up your sword' you just have to read it.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/But_to_bring_a_sword

[Machinesworking]

MW - Olga's not worth your time. seriously.

Point took, and I'm swamped with work lately.

The passage.... (I really really have to start marking this stuff when I find it), basically has Jesus telling his followers to kill unbelievers, it's pretty straight forward and not up to interpretation. Explains why europeans could do all that inquisition party time fun, and be OK with it. If I find it again in my little free time I'll post it here.

[Tone Deft]

survival of the brainwashed. the religion that can spout the party rhetoric and prevent birth control and keep abortions to a minimum wins.

too drunk to post this, just drunk enough for a ministry show. your fault man.

holy fuck, the new album is all covers. ummm... more on THAT later...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KoUuQ0Mi44 <---- take a trip, cop out, groove. \m/

[D K]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27x25sdW9wQ&NR=1
enjoy