Machinesworking wrote:
Where I differ with you. Fundamentalism of all kinds springs from a real or perceived injustice. In the states the most crazy religious nuts are from the south, which to a degree was disenfranchised economically after the civil war.
In the middle east it comes from our constant military and economic presence, and in that sense it's my opinion that you are creating more problems than you are solving. In many respects the fact that you lay blame for the insanity of the Taliban and islamic fundamentalism on the religion itself instead of looking at the reasons why a people would turn even more sharply towards fundamentalism is the cancer that causes young middle eastern kids to join terrorist cells in the first place. They don't appear out of nowhere lured by afterlife virgins etc.
I do not, and will never understand what drives you, and people like you to ignore our own complicity in this Catch 22 and to aggressively pursue the very tactics that landed Afghanistan into Taliban hands in the first place, foreign military presence and a puppet government.
It doesn't matter that we're "better" than the Russians, it doesn't matter that the Taliban sucked, in the end of the day if a people do not feel they are truly self governing then they will turn towards fundamentalism.
You want to prevent 911? go after the hearts and minds of the people who largely drove those planes, Saudis..... and where's Bin Ladin? I guess getting involved in Iraq was much more important than finding the guy truly responsible for the attacks? :roll:
Note the highlighted bit above in your post.
Islam needs a reformation, similar to the reformation that Christianity went through in the 17th century (I think it was around then; please forgive my estimate of dates but I studied Asian History in University, not European).
Ultimately, there are a disproportionate number of highly educated, wealthy people in Islam who turn to fundamentalism than Christians do. There are very wealthy people involved wahabism, salafism, and deobandism. There are a large number of muslims in North America who support terrorism ; I remember reading a Reuters report that said a quarter of US muslims supported suicide bombings depending on the circumstances.
Yes, a quarter is a minority, but you'ld be hard pressed to find a similarl proportion of athiests, Jews, Christians, or Buddhists anywhere who think that people who believe in god need to be blown up.
The Sept 11 hijackers were for the most part educated and reasonably well off. Same for the Toronto 17. Same for the idiots who tried to attack Glasgow Airport.
Real injustice is not the issue here; it's percieved injustice, and I argue that the perception must change.
Further, you see other parts of the world where people aren't free or rich; Most of Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America; However, they have not engaged in the level of violence that plagues Islamic societies. Why?
The only common factor I can find for this level of violence and terrorism is Islam, a theology that was founded through war and forced conversion. It's a supremacist, imperialist ideology (though admittedly not the only one out there) but it needs to fix itself if it is going to coexest in harmony with the rest of the world.
Muslims are told in their holy book that they're destined to master the world. When they look around and realize that they're not in charge (and haven't been for about eight hundred years), it creates a societal level identity crisis. It's a furious reaction to a
percieved injustice. Fury that your society, despite what you believe you deserve, isn't the most technologically, economically, politically nor socially advanced.
Sorry.
All this could be fixed if Islam embraced rationality, liberty, and pluralism. Where they have begun to adapt (Bosnia, Dubai, few others) they have done well. Where they hang on to 7th century delusions of grandeur, they become enraged.
