Discussion, Music as Career or Hobby?

[OvertoneZero]

Some of you who are starting out (much younger than me) might want to try what a programmer friend of mine does. He is on a temp list. Works for 2 months then takes a month off. He is always in touch but never full time. This might provide small 'Full time' stints at music. Just an idea.

Yeah that's a good call... seasonal or cyclical work allows for the comparatively large chunks of unstructured time that creative / slacker types relish.

[OvertoneZero]

What about working as a (traveling?) dance DJ? I have no idea how difficult this really is and have never DJ'ed anything other than my middle school radio station but it seems like a possibly viable choice for the musically inclined 'average joe' who wants to jump in, have fun, and make some bucks.

You are self-reliant, no band required, and perhaps in a certain sense it's easier than being a 'real' musician or producer since you essentially rely on a catalog of music by many artists.

Load a thousand MP3's on your computer, give yourself a cool new DJ moniker, and go to town? Then you can start to blur the lines and play your own material where it work.

[Tone Deft]

Some of you who are starting out (much younger than me) might want to try what a programmer friend of mine does. He is on a temp list. Works for 2 months then takes a month off. He is always in touch but never full time. This might provide small 'Full time' stints at music. Just an idea.

Yeah that's a good call... seasonal or cyclical work allows for the comparatively large chunks of unstructured time that creative / slacker types relish.

the bitch about doing software is staying current, the latest languages, the latest techniques. jumping from job to job like that can be GREAT to keep up on different skills, plus you get exposed to different companies' technologies. bad part is that you have to keep getting gigs, once you slip, it's a rough road.

[drb]

What about working as a (traveling?) dance DJ? I have no idea how difficult this really is and have never DJ'ed anything other than my middle school radio station but it seems like a possibly viable choice for the musically inclined 'average joe' who wants to jump in, have fun, and make some bucks.

TONS of competition and very hard to make a name for yourself. You are likely no better than 10000 other people with the same idea?

[OvertoneZero]

Yeah I totally have no clue about Dj'ing

[drb]

My feeling is that unless you are:

Extremely talented and dedicated
Extremely dedicated and a highly self-motivated and creative self-promoter
..it will probably be a very difficult road financially to try to make it strictly as a music creator.
:

Agreed.

FWIW, I have done music full time for many many years, but now it's time for a change. Clubs and travel are great when you are young, but not as good later in life.

[cubehog]

Though I don´t earn any money with my music I´d see it as my main goal to become a better musician. That´s what I´ve found out for sure over the past years.
I made 2 apprenticeships (bankclerk, insurance agent) which do nothing for me because I simply can´t deal with the mobbing and backstabbing. It was the worst choice of my life trying to fit into somebody else´s shoes and 2 times I tried to "flee the scene completely", luckily enough I landed in a hospital.
Obviously these 2 job perspectives are not relevant anymore.

2 yrs. ago I did a job as postman and that was way much better. Unluckily enough the company got bankrupt so i´m forced to live on state welfare.
The only things I am able to buy is some food and my rent is paid by state welfare also.
I use a powerbook which I bought 5 yrs ago and I´d love to have a new pc but I can´t afford to buy even a used one. Whatever. I can deal with that and I am happier than ever before.I´d rather choose a quite modest lifestyle and be independent than working for the "entertainment people". And here is why.

Even though your talents might be special and extraordinary and you would develop them to a very high degree you should have one important skill added to them. It is the capability to deal with "bigtalkers".

What I really, really dislike about the musicbiz that I got to know, is the indecency from a certain type of "the entertainment people". They would promise you heaven and as soon as they have to fulfill their requirements they´d deliberately fool you and others. They´d suck up in the first two conversations, exploit your talent to promote their careers and then let you fall. They´d never mention your name to other important "business people" because
1) they are afraid to be replaced by you (they know that you´ve got more skills and therefore deliver right on time) OR/AND
2) they think, they did their part of the job by having "this really great idea".

I also have "big ideas". But before I ask someone for "a favor" I try to do it by myself and when I see I need help from a different department I´d approach this person with at least loyalty and respect and ask what they expect from me.

The "entertainment people" can only come up with "big things" and then let the "real workers" do the stuff. That´s their mindset. Everybody can do what musicians can, but to have "this really phenomal idea" that´s "the hardest part of the job". Therefore they´be compensated in a much more decent manner than what the worker bee has done to accomplish the actual task.
Btw, often these "big ideas" are just half baked shit and the people behind the scenes make it to something that matters. (at least a good tasting shortbread or even an exquisite cake)

I guess it works like this in every type of business but the "entertainment industry" is by its defintion made of illusions. And these "entertainment people" are able to push buttons to their advantage. That´s their best skill. If you look behind it you´ll notice this pretty quickly.

I am happier to work on a not so well paid part time job than being dependent from these assholes. The entertainment business seems to attract these "bigtalkers" and the more of them you hear from these sort of people the least you want to earn your money with making music. That´s my experience so far. I still have hope to meet the "right guys" in this business. But it seems to me they are hard to find or get in touch with.

I still wait for a decent amount of money for two "quick audiojobs". Numerous changes in the schedule were made because "we" had to adapt it to the client´s idea. And they got decent extras from me like ringtones and internetsounds. That could be seen as "byproducts". So I won´t mention these issues to them. I´d be lucky enough to see at least a little amount of money. And it doesn´t matter if it is a big company or a small one. Often these "decisionmakers" don´t comprehend the amount of work that goes into these "little audiojobs".

[Mesmer]

whoooo! now that's ranting! let it all out!

That said, I'm doing the same type of thing as Mesmer right now. So obviously I hope that I'm wrong about the above!

whoo! brothers in arms hahahahaw, ... wait, where's cape cod?

It's getting more and more difficult everyday but I don't regret it, not for a minute.

[Timur]

Having someone support you with the bare necessities helps alot, like having a home and something to eat. In most european countries everyone has got health-insurance, too. Then you also need at least "some" gear or some band that brings in the gear you need.

So as long as your survival is guaranteed and you've got the tools to do music then you've at least got a good foundation. Everything else is luxury, like having an audience and getting paid.

[Silence]

Wow, this thread grew more than i thought. I appriciate the sincerity of it all with ppl mentioning fears and hopes at the same time. Im done with ppl talking about "if you really love what you do you´ll excell" and crap like that. At the end of the day, you have bills to pay...
Ive heard som many ppl forgetting about the backside of this sort of happieness and joy and crap....and that modest living and financial insecurity... wich can be ass if you got kids or plan to get kids. And its not fair to let your significant other pay all the bills while you´re all happy and enjoying life.

I guess what i was wondering was how others thought/think in this situation. I think that i would have to give it a shot but on the side for a while and slowly pushing for music. I dont think that ill become a producer or such that makes so much money id be able to save the world and still whipe my ass with the rest....just maby a coin to scrape the crap off of the cheaks if i´d have a bad day.

Well come the stories coming and if you feel that you´d like to give away your age so that the context gets more clear or any other info, like what kind of music u do or get paid to do....it would be much apriciated!

to get the ball rolling...im 24, 2 degrees in the field of IT and Management... Music: Computer based of course but not limited to electronic music and sample based... It is mostly house right now but ive been into hip hop and ethic music of all sorts...

soo....GO!!!!

and yeah....Keep on Keepin on

[Mesmer]

Also, my feelings about it tell me something like this:

Being a Part-time musician doesn't necessarily mean you're a Hobbyist.

Remember a Full-time musician might actually be so cought up with rehearsals, productions and business that he might not be able to be in the cutting-edge of some other field (say Web/IT stuff, Writing -as in novels- to name a few).

My proposition: can you be an IT-guy hobbyist?...

people like me right now, crossing a highrope bridge:

except there's no harness thing to catch you if you fall !!!

[creature]

For context, I am 31, have been a software developer full time since 1997. I work for a bank as a software developer on a pretty decent salary. I am married and have a mortgage.

My current album, distant horizon, is selling pretty well. As a hobby I would say these sales are a storming success. If I was trying to do this full time, i was chalk it down as a financial flop. I would love to do it full time, but it really isn't practical.

I am just very fortunate that I actually really like my job, have lots of decent techincal challenges and all the people I work with are really nice and friendly.

Steve

[mdk]

im 33, married with a 2 year old daughter. I've got a degree in Computer Science and AI and im a self-employed software developer and i love my work, its a nice balance of technical and creative work.

My music is erm..a bit of everything... My records always get decent reviews (e.g. the last one was warp's single of the week) but dont sell a lot. Im probably going to put out another album sometime soon, when i get round to it

http://www.discogs.com/artist/mdk

[OvertoneZero]

whoooo! now that's ranting! let it all out!

That said, I'm doing the same type of thing as Mesmer right now. So obviously I hope that I'm wrong about the above!

whoo! brothers in arms hahahahaw, ... wait, where's cape cod?

It's getting more and more difficult everyday but I don't regret it, not for a minute.

Haha.. Cape Cod is a penninsula on the east coast of Massachusetts USA.. so there is a lot of ocean around. It's a nice place but the winter is long and cold.

I play guitar passably so it doesn't have to be 100% production for me. Which is a good thing, because my tracks have a long way to go.

29 years old, no kids, no mortgage, no car, etc..

[dave999z]

I am 34 (almost 35).

I am an attorney.

I have a girlfriend (who's in med school and about to start her residency in another city where i probably can't find a job, so we'll be long distance).

No kids.

I can afford pretty much any (project studio caliber) gear I want these days but have ZERO time to use it. Seriously, I bought all the crap in my signature last summer thinking: "Finally, I have the tools I need to make the brilliant tracks I know I'm capable of." Well, I have used the stuff for a grand total of about 5 hours since then. I have no time, due to work, and when I do have any time, I have no energy, due to work.

When I left off with making music last time (before law school), I was using Cubase VST 4.1 on Mac OS9 on a 350MHz Mac G3, using a mic that came with a minidisc player. I thought I was so limited by those tools. I needed better gear. I was so frustrated. I was broke. But you know what? I made tracks. And I liked them. And it was loads of fun.

Now I have all this equipment (or should I say - all I have is this equipment), but no time for it.

It's the project studio paradox. Unless you're born with a trust fund, it's pretty hard to find a job that pays enough to fund a project studio but doesn't monopolize your life.

Cheers all,

Dave