Ideas for your ideal Live controller

dr_loop · Post by **dr_loop** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:32 pm

... i dontget it! i mean everybody (well almost, everybody with a PC) has this thing in his hand! it'c called a MOUSE with it's MOUSEWHEEL!

so dear Ableton: support the mousewheel !! even the dinosaurs (e.g. cubase) can do it.

Beta Two Agonist · Post by **Beta Two Agonist** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:40 pm

I think that, related to the technical control side of things (usb/midi/osc, knobs, faders, sensors, touchscreen etc.) it is interesting that people are always looking for a way to add a "gestural" element to music.

the first thing a lot of people complain about when seeing (laptop/computer-based) electronic musicians perform is the staticness of the performance, as opposed to a cello player's gestures, bowing and fingering and the sound produced.

there's quite alot out there already, ranging from the precussa cubes to the jazzmutant stuff, monome, the ancient midi glove etc.

i think it's difficult to come up with something entirely new...what do you guys think?

Alsamarkan · Post by **Alsamarkan** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:33 pm

with this tool you can change every parameter below the mouse cursor. it is phenomenal and super simple. it is a MUST HAVE!

Also see: http://aes-ssg.toningenieur.info/content/view/61

tekkers · Post by **tekkers** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:03 pm

well - i got enough knobbage and sliders on my korg microkontrol and faderfox dj2

what i would really like is a matrix grid - like i've seen other ppl suggest..
8 x 8 grid is fine, with say maybe scroll wheel or buttons for scrolling up and down scenes... maybe small lcd to the right of the matrix so scene names can be copyed directly from the monitor?

feedback so i can see what slot has a clip in and all that melarky..

i mean, its not THAT different from using my old rm1x sequencer years ago... it had 16 patterns - all with 16 channels.. and i would jump from one pattern to another - muting and un muting stuff.. knobbage for filters and fx etc

it would be nice if the faderfox lx2 had this sorta functionality but it just seems to be layed out damm weird.. otherwise i'd prolly have one or two by now...

and as for the monome - yes it looks very nice - but really i never have much luck gettin max patches and all that kinda stuff to work - i just want somethin i can pretty much just plug in and go..

zeropoint · Post by **zeropoint** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:33 pm

works for me.......

8O · Post by 8O » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:49 pm

I think the answer is staring us in the face:

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:53 pm

If this Stephan Franke guy hasn't retired since posting this message...

I would suggest that your usership is divided into three primary segments:

DJ/remixer, taking existing material and modifying it.

Electronic musician/composer, writing new music and designing new sounds.

Theorist/educator, establishing new models for understanding music.

Recording engineer/sampler, capturing live performances or found sounds

Now, of course, none of these is mutually exclusive, they are maybe quadrants on a graph, where one vectors somewhere in between. In fact, it is likely most Live users do not fall firmly into one quadrant, because there will be some quadrants that are more purely covered by other applications.

In terms of each of the above, there are sub-areas:

for example (For EXAMPLE, not exhaustive),

DJ-- turntablist, knob-twiddler. These may want radically different controllers modeled after what they are used to.

Electronic musician-- keyboardist, vocalist, guitarist "models". As a guitarist myself, I am very used to holding a necked instrument and using a pedalboard to activate effects, and am very comfortable with this mode of interface. A vocalist/guitarist would tend to use the same mode. A keyboardist/vocalist may prefer more controls near the keyboard, and few or none for the feet.

Theorist/educator-- this is someone who is likely to build his/her own, or to want only a highly configurable modular system. They would also like 'utility components' that convert any kind of message into a MIDI message.

Recording engineer-- would want a remote interface that monitors key metrics of what's going on, and provides a total level of assurance that he/she is capturing what he/she is hearing. An example-- if you are recording with a laptop and your adapter becomes unplugged, you may not be aware of this. While the OS may warn you, it may not be obvious enough.

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:55 pm

8O wrote:I think the answer is staring us in the face:

no midi out. one review "sounds like a nintendo that somebody's stepped on"

tekkers · Post by **tekkers** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:16 pm

Mammalux wrote:

works for me.......

hahahahah!
that loooks awesome - that monome is exactly the right size too

koneko · Post by **koneko** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:29 pm

ok.. thats what i'd be happy to have and its pretty simple. basically a uc-33 with a grid of scene launch buttons. also, mute, solo and arm for each channel, cue knob, and very important, those little arrows - it scroll to the next 8 faders on the right, or next clips on top/below/right/left, next send knobs, next 2 return tracks, etc. the actual controlled functions in live will highlight, so you know exactly where you are in the GUI.

i have a doepfer Pocket Dial which i find a great concept.
http://www.doepfer.de/pd.htm
4 groups of 16 knobs, 8 of them i dedicate to automap, the rest can be assigned and modified. ableton might consider something similar as a modular controller to compile the big board. but really, there are enough knobs in the market.

this one-knob mouse is a cool idea.. but its just one knob at the time, right..? its a very crippled tweak potential.. nice to have, but no substitution to a real board.

Alsamarkan · Post by **Alsamarkan** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:52 pm

so here is another one for your left hand^^

misteron · Post by **misteron** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:49 pm

Alsamarkan wrote:with this tool you can change every parameter below the mouse cursor. it is phenomenal and super simple. it is a MUST HAVE!

Also see: http://aes-ssg.toningenieur.info/content/view/61

wtf?!
Is this thing for real? ie...available somewhere.
The link is in German and I couldn't find it on google as I don't know it's name.
Would love more info/anglophonic link

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:11 am

this was a first draft of a theoretical midibox project

long time ago, but I think it needed two brains and a number of input boards to handle all the knobs and buttons -

basically a mackie control type thing with a clip/scene launching system above..

"modular" in the sense of being rackmounted, and trying to use similar pcb's in different spots - and having "sub-rack-mounts" so you could put different elements in different places

julienb · Post by **julienb** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:16 am

longjohns wrote:this was a first draft of a theoretical midibox project

long time ago, but I think it needed two brains and a number of input boards to handle all the knobs and buttons -

basically a mackie control type thing with a clip/scene launching system above..

"modular" in the sense of being rackmounted, and trying to use similar pcb's in different spots - and having "sub-rack-mounts" so you could put different elements in different places

this kind of gear fits with the one I dream about
as I use a BCR,I'll (or I would) only build a clip matrix.

Alsamarkan · Post by **Alsamarkan** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:32 am

This thing is for real. It is a concept made by two audio engineer students. They patented it, but as far as I know they still search for a partner who likes to manufacture and bring it on the market. Let´s hope, Ableton does recognize the potential of this awesome mouse and contacts the developers. I would love it and for sure you do.