Mac to PC switch advice

xuoham · Post by **xuoham** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:16 am

Hi everybody.
Live is my main application and i'm tired of the mac's poor performances. I feel thrilled by what a decent pc lappie offers in terms of hardware performance, but i'm kind of ignorant and scared about Windows (XP home). Could anyone advise me about what to do and not to do in terms of audio configuring and optimizing? The sole purpose of this pc will be to run Live, Reason, VSTs, audio editor (Wavelab?), very slight web access (registering and update). Soundcard: pcmcia Digigram VX Pocket. Maybe three partitions will do on the HD. I intend to buy a Toshiba Sat.M30. I feel very concerned about stability as i perform a lot with laptop (currently Powerbook pismo 500, OS 9.2). Also i heard about IRQ conflicts and this kind of stuff and i would like to avoid nightmares as much as possible, considering i will have to reinstall Windows anyway, since i want to partition the drive and get rid of all that's unnecessary (e-mail, movies, games, etc...)
Thanx a lot for any advice and sorry if this topic has already been deeply covered!
Cheers

Komplex · Post by **Komplex** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:47 am

Great laptop the M30.

The best thing you can do is not install anything you don't need to run live and don't connect it to the internet.

But keep the dvd application on it as its great to watch movies on the widescreen

futureproof · Post by **futureproof** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:01 am

http://www.musicxp.net/tuning_tips.php

I (semi) recently switched as well. Everything has been great (just watch out for viruses) and now I cant help but chuckle at the whole "dude in cafe with mac laptop" culture here
in LA. You simply do not see PC's in cafes here...period. Gotta hand it to apple, they are good at marketing their overpriced slugs.

I bet you were using a mac for the reason I was.....everyone says "gotta get a mac if your doin music". load of crap. I just make my mac based friends jealous now by whipping out Live running 4 instances of Z3ta+ !!

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:41 am

Just to let you know futureproof, I use a mac because I use programs that are mac only, (Logic, Digital performer, Pluggo, Zebra, and ton of free AUs) Live 4 is one of the few cross platform apps I own.
I also happen to like the OS better, personal choice I know, but I can't stand XPs graphics, or workflow.

Talking to one of the people at Ableton a while ago I was told that Live 4 is 50/50 as far as sales to both OS, so I don't think it's appropriate to bash people for their choice of OS here.

On the subject at hand, I would get a Centrino chip definitely if I were you xuoham, the performance of the Centrino chip blows away the P4 chips by almost double in Pro Tool tests!!! The Centrino is blowing away all but the fastest desktops in audio tests. Think about that before buying a laptop with a P4 chip.

Komplex · Post by **Komplex** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:06 am

the Toshiba satellite m30 is a "centrino" laptop

It's powerful but I'm a little scared when it comes to durability. It's sexy looking but its also very plasticy.

futureproof · Post by **futureproof** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:22 am

Machinesworking wrote:Just to let you know futureproof, I use a mac because I use programs that are mac only, (Logic, Digital performer, Pluggo, Zebra, and ton of free AUs) Live 4 is one of the few cross platform apps I own.
I also happen to like the OS better, personal choice I know, but I can't stand XPs graphics, or workflow.

.......so I don't think it's appropriate to bash people for their choice of OS here.

machines...i know i know. sorry for "bashing". I guess it just comes down to the apps we choose and what we expect out of a computer.

Call me a simpleton but this is how I use my computer:
1. turn it on ( same on pc and mac)
2. double click on the Live or Reason icon on desktop (same on pc and mac)
3. make music (both apps look the same to on both platforms to me)
4. when I'm done making music maybe I'll check the net ( again, same on both)
5. maybe once a month or so I'll do routine maintenance ( had to do this on mac also)

As you can see the experience is almost exactly the same whether I'm using a mac or pc. Im not looking at the innards of the OS or anything like that. I'm just looking at the audio apps I have open and sometimes a browser, thats it. The only difference to me is the price/ performance ratio.

Its a shame though, my partner and I were perfectly satisfied using macs in the OS9 DP 2 and 3 days but then the double whammy of osx and DP4 just threw us for a loop bigtime and left a permanent bad taste in my mouth. I hope everything is runnin smooth now for you guys that are sticking with Mac though! And dont tell anyone but I AM a bit jealous of Zebra and the new Mode plugs.

Peace

futureproof · Post by **futureproof** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:40 am

xuoham, sorry for kinda hijacking your post here.

couple things:

1.get an external drive (7200)

2.get a copy of registry mechanic and run it once a month when you do your routine maintenance (disk defrag). This app gets rid of invalid references in your registry and will help ensure your comp runs fast and smooth.

3. Dont worry. Your gonna turn on your computer and open up Live and make music just like you did on your mac. After all the sighs and hisses and general concern for my well-being I got from my mac using friends when I bought a PC I thought that when I opened Live Bill Gates face would be plastered on the pan and efx sends!! Dont worry, Bill wont be there and the only difference will be that you'll use more efx and VSTi's than you ever have before!!!

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:23 am

futureproof wrote:machines...i know i know. sorry for "bashing". I guess it just comes down to the apps we choose and what we expect out of a computer.

The only difference to me is the price/ performance ratio.

Its a shame though, my partner and I were perfectly satisfied using macs in the OS9 DP 2 and 3 days but then the double whammy of osx and DP4 just threw us for a loop bigtime and left a permanent bad taste in my mouth. I hope everything is runnin smooth now for you guys that are sticking with Mac though! And dont tell anyone but I AM a bit jealous of Zebra and the new Mode plugs.

Peace

To me it's the apps you run, period. I switched from DP to Logic about four months before Apple bought Emagic, so I never had to deal with MOTU being the secretive, slugbait, make your current user base beta testers, they are. Logic uses dual processors, so it works actually better in OSX. So OSX hasn't been a burden, but a blessing for me.

Talk all you want about cpu, but in 9 months both our machines will be obsolete, and I really don't see any point in debating it, when tomorrow things could change with the laptop situation. I go for the plugs I love, like Pluggo, and Zebra.
It is different, the apps/plugs available are. I don't seem to recall macs being able to run a single instance of Z3ta+? conversely I don't seem to recall windows being able to run a single instance of Pluggo?

Maybe it's me too, I tend to write in Logic on a dual Gig G4, (it's still a better midi environment IMO ), then port loops of audio, and the major soft synths to Live 4, so my puny 800mhz powerbook does just fine.

2kilo · Post by **2kilo** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:23 am

I got an old sony vaio notebook, the only reason was it had no stupid external buttons [to break off] and was made of sturdy plastic. Its a total brick, only portable between power sockets, but for the same price as a 1.3 ibook [at the time] I got the labtop, quattro external card and a copy of Trakter. All on a [at the time] top spec P4 2.8...

I would totally avoid connecting to the net if you can, there are all the usually tricks to improve performance, eg no tray apps, lower UI graphic spec, run in background, etc [must be some detailed posts around]. And turn instant messenger off...

I've used macs in design for over 10yrs, and PC's for about 4yrs. Although macs are sexy and tough I'm fed up with the company. Example of this is the way growing software specs will make your mac redundant very fast while PC's just keep on going. I reckon I get about 2-3yrs more use out of a PC. I'm not sure of this but intel and AMD seem to be pushing processor chip development harder, eg Centrino, while the only way mac compete is by building dual processer machines [desktop] that then need loads of fans to keep cool, and adds internal noise eg G5 complaints.

2kilo · Post by **2kilo** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:27 am

Forgot, if you want really a sturdy notebook, there is the "toughbook" range [don't know that much] with different versions, some models are used by the military in the field...

MarkH · Post by **MarkH** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:28 am

xuoham wrote: i'm tired of the mac's poor performances.

You mean Live's "poor performance" on a Mac. Logic runs circles around Live in terms of performance, so I've learned to work around some of its limitations on the Powerbook. Still, it's not horrible on my Powerbook (30 tracks @ 35% on the system drive), but I always know Ableton could do better if they wanted to. Altivec optmization would be a good start, but after an email from Kleine it seems their focused on G5 performance only, so I'd say the iMac would be a good price/performance option. Obviously your post is laptop-specific as G5 is fine with Live, so I gues it should be "I'm tired of my Mac's poor performance with Live" because the Mac isn't a poor performer. There are good macs, and old shit macs, just like there are good PCs and shit PCs. If you don't have the money for a good Mac, then I'd recommend a PC, but please don't generalize Mac as "poor performance" just because you're having shit results. People have a tendency to get worked up and bash their equipment when changing platforms. Happens all the time on the Digi forum (at least every couple days) when guys talk about switching from PC to Mac. They totally bash their PC systems.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:16 am

MarkH wrote:Altivec optmization would be a good start, but after an email from Kleine it seems their focused on G5 performance only,

i can't understand that. Live is still very much a performance application, and what do 90% of performers use on stage if using a computer? A Tower? NO! a Laptop. G4 optimizations NEED to happen, whatever it takes.

Apple's laptops range in price from $1099 to $2799, if you love OSX and you love Live - you are screwed!

I hate to be critical, but i really think Ableton needs to level the playing field with their software in terms of the two seperate platforms. If their G5 optimization is really just dual-cpu optimization and no more 1 cpu for graphics and 1 cpu for audio (in other words, if they add multithreading to the application)... well this will give a boost to Dual Opteron systems as well, and you can build a dual opteron system for under a thousand american dollars. Also this will give a boost to Hyperthreading P4 systems. So this huge performance gap between the macs and pcs will still remain.

Another thing to mention - if the G5 optimization is just multi-threading, its not gonna help all those Single CPU G5 iMac owners thinking their machines are the saviors for Live on the mac end. This goes for the future of the Powerbook as well (G5).

It upsets me alot. I sold my G4 867mhz 12" Powerbook for $1000. With that same $1000 I bought an HP Laptop that is literally 3.5 times more effecient with Ableton Live. I Loved and still do Love OSX, but Live has been my main performance application for nearly 2 years, and now since Live 4 its all i use in the studio and on stage. The ONLY reason i switched was for performance, i couldn't afford to buy a faster powerbook, $1000 was my budget and i did what i had to do. I really wish i didn't have to. OSX is a beautiful operating environment, but its sad that Mac users end up paying a premium to use it with Ableton Live.

MarkH · Post by **MarkH** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:46 am

Adam - There is no argument that PC wins hands down in price/performance. I am quite happy with my Powerbook setup but I have the luxory of running 1.5GB ram, 7200 RPM drive, and I know most people can't afford to spend $2500 on a Powerbook then another $400 on upgrades. For me, I love Mac that much that I'm willing to do it and it doesn't bother me.

The real issue at hand is that with the popularity of soft synths, especially now that more and more are incorporating their own reverbs, delays, and other effects, the demand for CPU power keeps going UP and it's beyond me how a host-based sequencer could NOT support mutli-threading when it's so critical in todays virtual studio setup.

FaX-01 · Post by **FaX-01** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:41 am

As much as I agree on Multi-threading etc etc ...
It is obvious a Dual G5 works as well as a P4/Dothan etc with live.
The G4 is a very old processor at the end of its lifespan IMHO.
The problem isn't really a Mac vs PC one it would be a bit like bitching about lives performance on a top end PIII compared to a top end P4.
Apples and Oranges really.
I'd like to see spec/performance on a G5 i-Mac first myself.
It's all find and dandy saying G4 optimisations NEED to happen.
Lets see how well the new OS they're releasing and the New Logic when it comes out fares on a top end G4 notebook.
The G4 is just old technology being pushed to it's limits.
Superb build quality though and alot of good extra features like Firwire 400/800 ,decent built in sound handling etc etc etc ....
That said if I was doing graphics work I wouldn't think twice about shelling out on a Mac before a PC for the task at hand.

globalgoon · Post by **globalgoon** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:56 am

after 8 years of using a mac, i switched to pc about 2 years ago because of live. after a week or so, i was totally used to the pc and it's operating system.

if the performance is good on future g5s, i may consider switching back, but only they are priced at the same level as PCs. My main reason for switching would be because mac laptops are nice looking (most pcs are pretty ugly on the outside)

Mac to PC switch advice

Mac to PC switch advice

Re: Mac to PC switch advice

Re: Mac to PC switch advice