Discussing touchscreens? Why / why not?

misteron · Post by **misteron** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:58 pm

................... Inspired by the "Live without a screen" thread, but at the risk of thread-jacking...

Isn't looking at parameter names (and sometimes values) on a lcd screen on, say, a Remote SL, just a few steps short of using a touchscreen?

Ok, I know, the main difference is the tactility in turning a physical rather than "pushing" a graphic, but even the Lemur lacks that.

And I know the Lemur allows u to design your own interface with only the elements u need, which I think is great, but not that great, not $HUGE greater than making do with a touchscreen.

So I guess I'm wondering why more people aren't using a touch screen?

If you are - hows that working out for u? Tips? Links?
If not, why not?

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:02 pm

Quick answer. Lemurs are too damn expensive and there really isn't anything else out there.

gomi · Post by **gomi** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:07 pm

beats me wrote:Quick answer. Lemurs are too damn expensive and there really isn't anything else out there.

also with the lemur and live, you are pretty much on your own for interfaces.
there are some good templates, but they never do everything you want, so
you'll have to edit/toy/create.

where as the dexter is nice if you are logic/cubase/neundo/sonar user
already.. it maps right onto those.

misteron · Post by **misteron** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:09 pm

beats me wrote:Quick answer. Lemurs are too damn expensive and there really isn't anything else out there.

exactly - they're really expensive which makes wonder why one wouldn't use a touchscreen instead at the small (compared to the price difference) difference that you can't design your own interface.
Bearing in mind it is also a plus to be able to see everything on screen and not have to decide up-front what to have and then go design/ build a max patch / whatever.

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:18 pm

I'm not all up on computer touch screen technology but I don't know anybody that owns one or is using one for anything, much less music. I don't think it's as simple as hooking up a touch screen to your computer and you are off launching clips and doing filter sweeps with your fingers.

I don't think the technology is there otherwise a bunch of people would be doing it already. Somebody on this board has been working on this for Live for forever and I don't know what the hold up is.

andrewbrewer · Post by **andrewbrewer** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:43 pm

i've got a touchscreen and it doesn't work well w/ the live controls.

works OK w/ vsts if they have big controls.

live does odd things w/ the touchscreen, it feels like the controls keep extending in a direction even if you aren't going there -- the feel just doesn't work w/ the touch-screen yet.
it might just be my screen though.
clip-fire works fine though.

it's a shame because the live controls are plenty big enough for this type of control.

misteron · Post by **misteron** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:49 am

beats me wrote:Somebody on this board has been working on this for Live for forever and I don't know what the hold up is.

If u remember who that was please let me know in this thread.

Would I be right in thinking that the main limitation of a touchscreen compared to a Lemur would be the lack of multi-touch?

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:18 am

misteron wrote:
beats me wrote:Somebody on this board has been working on this for Live for forever and I don't know what the hold up is.
If u remember who that was please let me know in this thread.

Would I be right in thinking that the main limitation of a touchscreen compared to a Lemur would be the lack of multi-touch?

who?
http://www.ableton.com/forum/profile.ph ... le&u=11888

limitation?
multitouch

postmixformula · Post by **postmixformula** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:47 am

limitations: no tactile feedback. A static surface forces you to become repetitious and therefore your cellular memory kicks in and you become one with the gear = better performance. a houndred thousand dj's can't be wrong

offerings: like playing with modular synthesizers.. if you've ever done that, then you'll know what I mean. endless exploration and newness

summary: you need both. a static surface brings you back to a productive and repeatable outcome, but the analogue direction is so infinitely creative.

I think the FAW Circles synth attacks this issue well. If we see Live going touch/multi touch then the FAW synth is a good model

jbone1313 · Post by **jbone1313** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:59 am

Please search this forum for "Wacom" or "Tablet".

I use a Cintiq and its the best thing that's ever happened to me. (Besides my girlfriend and Live).

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:03 am

jbone1313 wrote:Please search this forum for "Wacom" or "Tablet".

I use a Cintiq and its the best thing that's ever happened to me. (Besides my girlfriend and Live).

2000$$$...

postmixformula · Post by **postmixformula** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:03 am

yeah.. but imagine a wacom controlled with your fingers.. not one but 2 or three fingers. we need multi touch for the full evolution of software synthesis.

I have to credit the Limur.. I just wish I could afford one

axou · Post by **axou** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:50 pm

misteron wrote:And I know the Lemur allows u to design your own interface with only the elements u need, which I think is great, but not that great, not $HUGE greater than making do with a touchscreen.

So I guess I'm wondering why more people aren't using a touch screen?

GUI controls designed for the mouse don't work so well for finger manipulation. Manipulating track volume by touching a 25x100 pixels Live fader is not as practical and precise as a 100x600 pixels Lemur fader.

Lux Libra · Post by **Lux Libra** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:16 pm

For me, the main advantage over traditional knob twiddling is the ability to control more than 2 parameters at the same time - that's all.
Sure it def. looks übercoolish to push some physics driven automationballs in one corner and fiddle some step sequencers in the other,
but all that you can do with software on your screen (ja ja, the screen:-) except the above mentioned limitation for 2 controls at the same time.
Also the lack of the physical feeling of knobs and sliders is a big downside for me. They weight, they turn, give physical response
all that i would miss when i touch an lcd with my fingers.
Maybe i'm too unfuture or search for excuses for not having 2000+ ish (

)
but lemurs are not for me.
give me my monome!

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:18 pm

postmixformula wrote:limitations: no tactile feedback. A static surface forces you to become repetitious and therefore your cellular memory kicks in and you become one with the gear = better performance. a houndred thousand dj's can't be wrong

I'll leave that DJ's quote for another day, but regarding tactile feedback and the Lemur... Who said you can only use the Lemur?
Sure, the screen doesn't feel like a knob. Thats what knobs are for.
The Lemur is a powerful centerpiece of your gear.
It all comes down to designing an interface that works for you.
That being said, the Lemur still has a lot of features missing. So doing anything you want is still out of the question.
Its still virtually impossible to easily send text to the Lemur, even though the OSC protocol is text based.

Anyway... I use the Lemur for things it isn't designed for. I don't need knobs or sliders. I need visual feedback and a control center for my physical controllers.
When the now mythical update for the Lemur arrives, you'll see some of the coolest dynamical interfaces yet. If all else fails, there's still Max 5

Discussing touchscreens? Why / why not?

Discussing touchscreens? Why / why not?

leeeeeeeeeemur

Re: Discussing touchscreens? Why / why not?