Midi Mapping - Relative vs Absolute

Aequitas123 · Post by **Aequitas123** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:17 pm

Could somebody give me an indication as to the difference, or what would work best when Midi mapping?

I'm using an Axiom 25 and i'm trying to map the knobs to various controls, but it usually ends up controlling it very sporadically. I'm assuming one of the variations of Relative or Absolute options would fix this.

Any tips?

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:09 am

sinmply - if you have endless rotary knobs (like on the BCR2000) it's relative

if the knobs go from 0-127 they are absolute

as for the other details Live should pick up what it;s meant to be

Aequitas123 · Post by **Aequitas123** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:22 am

Thanks!

brahms · Post by **brahms** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:16 pm

forge wrote:sinmply - if you have endless rotary knobs (like on the BCR2000) it's relative

if the knobs go from 0-127 they are absolute

as for the other details Live should pick up what it;s meant to be

yeah but i dont get this....

I have a BCR2000 and it sometimes assigns a relative value not absolute.
the only thing that i find useful is absolute.

can you explain relative to me in laymans terms and why would i want to use it?

Tuur · Post by **Tuur** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:37 pm

If it would work like advertised it would be great indeed.

You might be suffering from wrong detection: check the box in the left hand corner on the bottom of the screen while mapping (if it says absolute it will never work).

You might also have encountered this bug: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=81301

brahms wrote:can you explain relative to me in laymans terms and why would i want to use it?

Simple example: map a relative controller to the fine control of tempo. Try to do this with an absolute controller and spot the differences.

Also, with inc / dec CC's you can use all methods of changing values (typing / keyboard control / mouse actions) without getting strange jumps when you're going back to your midi controller.

forge · Post by **forge** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:15 am

brahms wrote:
forge wrote:sinmply - if you have endless rotary knobs (like on the BCR2000) it's relative

if the knobs go from 0-127 they are absolute

as for the other details Live should pick up what it;s meant to be
yeah but i dont get this....

I have a BCR2000 and it sometimes assigns a relative value not absolute.
the only thing that i find useful is absolute.

can you explain relative to me in laymans terms and why would i want to use it?

relative means it is relative to the current knob position in Live - Absolute means it corresponds directly - so the line on the knob is in the same position as the line on the knob in Live

you can;t have an absolute position on an endless knob because it will keep turning even when you get to 127

BassTooth · Post by **BassTooth** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:57 pm

does this have anything to do with "takeover mode": "pickup" or "value scaling"?

Alexis Forge · Post by **Alexis Forge** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:22 pm

BassTooth wrote:does this have anything to do with "takeover mode": "pickup" or "value scaling"?

no they are only relevant in Absolute mode because Relative is always relative to the knob position in Live - which is what pickup and value scaling ultimately attempt to emulate

ultra · Post by **ultra** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:01 pm

on an axiom, read the manual to see how to put an encoder into relative mode (signed bit). when you enable midi learn in live and move the knob, do it slowly. if live receives two repeated values that are at 65 or 1 (65 for decrement and 1 for increment), it realizes that you are sending relative midi.

relative midi is exactly the same as absolute, except the values being sent. when you move an axiom encoder quickly, those 65/1 values increase due to acceleration. if acceleration kicks in while you're trying to use midi learn, live will get confused and probably default to absolute mode because it sees changing values.

this isn't really a bug, it's more a result of there being no actual standard for relative midi. relative midi is more of a hack.

Tuur · Post by **Tuur** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:08 pm

I've just posted an update to the bug thread.

65/1 works, but 65/64 doesn't...

ultra · Post by **ultra** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:12 am

65 is the minimum value for decrement. 128 is the maximum. as i said 67 is a good number for a more natural feel.

1 is the minimum for increment. 3 is more natural.

as i said, if your controller isn't sending 65/1 when live is in midi learn mode, it won't realize it's signed bit and you have to manually select it from the drop down list at the bottom.

Tuur · Post by **Tuur** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:10 am

ultra wrote:as i said, if your controller isn't sending 65/1 when live is in midi learn mode, it won't realize it's signed bit and you have to manually select it from the drop down list at the bottom.

In theory. But there's no setting that works when your controller only spits out 65/64 (no acceleration!).

I couldn't find one at least...

ultra · Post by **ultra** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:07 pm

no and it doesn't appear that the other modes listed in the manual will work either. i would try them anyway if you haven't.

Tuur · Post by **Tuur** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:17 pm

I did.

I would expect either lin(ear) or non-lin to work, but as far as I can tell there's no difference.

ultra · Post by **ultra** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:09 am

what controller do you have?