Sync two laptops.. Please, please, please help!

DoA · Post by **DoA** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:21 pm

Hi guys,

I am not a newbie to MIDI, syncing or production & this has really got me stumped.

Ok I'm trying to sync two laptops with ableton.

Laptop #1

Windows XP Pro SP2
1.8Ghz Pentium M (Really 3.6Ghz)
1Gb RAM

Laptop #2
1.9Ghz Turion x64
Windows Vista Home Premium (No Service Packs)
2Gb RAM

Laptop 1 is using a Presonus Firebox soundcard & Laptop 2 is using a Presonus Firepod (the larger version).

I have tried allsorts including different latencies (one set to 2.0ms & two set to 8.0ms) that didn't work.

I tried setting both latops to 2.0ms latency and it syncs but after about 8 bars it goes completely haywire.

We had the most success with different latencies (and therefore different audio buffers). However after about 30mins they had drifted about 1/2 beat apart.

My question really is, what am I doing wrong & is there a formula I can use to work out the correct MIDI clock compensation (so far we've simply been guessing by ear, but as you know if it's 1.0ms out ... over 30 mins thats ... well a while it's drifter out by).

HELP PLEASE! I seriously will paypal you the money for a beer / bible / whatever you wish if you can get this working!!!!

Thanks in advance.

ps. Should 'Track' be enabled or just 'Sync'??

chrisedmo · Post by **chrisedmo** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:55 pm

We were messing with our macs last night and all we did was Mac 1 (host) > Firebox > Midi out > Midi in on Saffire > Mac 2 (slave - mine) i just activated the sync tab... and didnt adjust the latency at all it appears to be fine for or use but we're not using ultra tight techno lines or anything ? Did you have the clock set to song ? or pattern ? I think we had song ?

stallos · Post by **stallos** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:57 pm

what are the respective latencies of the respected soundcards?
I would have thought they would be reasonably similar... no? so wouldnt think there would be too much of a problem synching - i know how annoying this can be tho

are you routing one instance of live into the other or are both lives going into a mixer/pa or whatever ?

I had some issues with latencies between machines in the past when I was routing a friends live inside a channel inside my live. I used the track delay settings to compensate

autogen · Post by **autogen** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:08 pm

From my experience there isn't a lot you can do about the sync eventually drifting a little, but you could try hitting 'ALT+SPACEBAR' on the sync slave when the drift starts to become noticable. This should sync the slave back to the current song position of the master without stopping either.

DoA · Post by **DoA** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:09 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

I think it's something to do with my CPU because as soon as the CPU spikes the MIDI runs out of sync. On the windows laptop I'm running 8 channels with roughly 30 clips in each ... permanently in the arrangement ... is it too much??

My CPU is hovering at about 18-24% when synced via MIDI but is much lower 4-5% when playing solo.

Both Laptops have same latency values.

Input Latency - 5.62ms -> 41.6ms (anywhere between these two values depending on whether latency is set to 2ms or 40ms in Firebox control panel)
Output Latency - 9.50ms ->45.5ms (anywhere between these two values depending on whether latency is set to 2ms or 40ms in Firebox control panel)

diego vega · Post by **diego vega** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:30 pm

I have the same problem with the MIDI drifting... I tried with a friend with different midi controllers, interfaces, sound cards, and can't get the settings to work flawlessly 100% of the time without drifting and working reliable every time.

why is it so complicated? is there a better way to do this?

DoA · Post by **DoA** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:35 pm

diego vega wrote:I have the same problem with the MIDI drifting... I tried with a friend with different midi controllers, interfaces, sound cards, and can't get the settings to work flawlessly 100% of the time without drifting and working reliable every time.

why is it so complicated? is there a better way to do this?

Out of interest vega, are either of you using vista????

Ok, after lots of trials I think I've narrowed it down (but you know as soo as I say that something else'll trigger it & we'll be back to square one!)

Annyway, when the vista (slave) computer spikes even slightly (up to 4% from 0-1%) then the audio glitches.

Perhaps Vista SP1 will solve this?

Edit: We're both using Live 6 as swe've both had HUUUUGE problems with 7

pepezabala · Post by **pepezabala** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:35 pm

we never had problems with drifting, but now suddenly its drifting like hell. Could that be a live 7.03-issue?

Our setup is two macbooks, an ultralite and a fasttrack pro. With the ultralite as master it's drifting a lot. with the fasttrack as master it's ok.

Going to download 7.05 now.

DoA · Post by **DoA** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:37 pm

^bump^

This could really help people struggling with vista problems....

Anyone got more input on whether or not it is actually vista??

julienb · Post by **julienb** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:38 pm

vista is a piece of shit.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:41 pm

In my experience the only real sync that actually works across multiple Live systems is:

1
2
3
4
*spacebar*

has its obvious limitations, but utterly, utterly stable. Surprisingly so, even. Have run systems for several hours in perfect sync, really.

adventurepants_ · Post by **adventurepants_** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:02 am

Live has had problems with midi sync ever since midi was added to it. well at least ive had endless problems with hardware and Lives midi sync.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:47 am

My two Macs have rock-solid sync, but only since I dedicated one MIDI port to sync only. When MIDI data and sync were going through the same port, I had problems.

So now MIDI data travels down one port, sync down the other. No drift in 5+ hour sets.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:05 pm

hambone1 wrote:My two Macs have rock-solid sync, but only since I dedicated one MIDI port to sync only. When MIDI data and sync were going through the same port, I had problems.

So now MIDI data travels down one port, sync down the other. No drift in 5+ hour sets.

for me drift isn't a problem when midi syncing. The problem is 16th notes and subdivisions thereof. When the slave adjusts to tighten the sync the sound is.... awful...

So let me guess - you're using your main "audio set" as the master, and a non-audio slave?

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:10 pm

Machinate wrote:So let me guess - you're using your main "audio set" as the master, and a non-audio slave?

Yep... so I reckon my timing issues aren't as important as 16th-note audio to audio, so I wouldn't notice any real drift problems.