thought for the day - revisit old tracks or start new?

[WaveRider]

Well I think that one of the problem that makes it hard to transform ideas into full songs is the lack of structure tools in Live.

for example, trying different songs structures, like ABA or ABCA or AABAC, involves a great deal of cut and paste....


I remember working in other setups, where it was easy as typing ABA.....

[andydes]

Right now I’m very tempted to completely purge my hard drives of everything I’ve ever done and start from scratch. I might even dump the disks in the Thames, in case I ever get any foolish ideas in the future about trying to recover anything. What do you think?

I think you'd hate yourself in 5 years

More than now?

Sorry, just been a bad week. Dropped out of a fairly big night my friends are running this Friday because it wasn't really working (well, big for me). Very disappointed with myself. Oh, and I buggered my ankle playing football, just to put the boot in (pun intended).

[andydes]

Well I think that one of the problem that makes it hard to transform ideas into full songs is the lack of structure tools in Live.

for example, trying different songs structures, like ABA or ABCA or AABAC, involves a great deal of cut and paste....


I remember working in other setups, where it was easy as typing ABA.....

I'm not sure Live makes it harder to finish tracks than other DAWs, but it makes it very easy not to, as you have so much opportunity to jam around with parts and try new things.

[forge]

I'm not sure Live makes it harder to finish tracks than other DAWs, but it makes it very easy not to, ....

you've pretty much summed up the great Ableton paradox right there

There are other life reasons as well so I can't blame it all on Live, but I think I finished more music before I got Live, but I think I've had a lot more fun with Live

it's the big danger of using it as your only DAW - Live is the tangent master!

[Angstrom]

I'm not sure if I work in a different way to most people (I doubt it) , but most of my tracks get finished eventually. Some take longer than others, but I always know what they need.


I always have a lot of things going on and sometimes it's hard to remember what needs to be focused on and what is a distraction, so I use organisational software to keep track of what I am meant to be doing.

Anyone on windows I recommend AbstractSpoon's "ToDoList"
it's free and simple. http://www.abstractspoon.com/

I have a category for "music work" and I create tasks beneath that, each can have sub tasks and you can attach files and folder locations to the tasks.
That way when I open it up after a break I can see that "check mix of song X on other speakers - then sign off " has a high priority and I do that small task before going on to the next one ("check for errant notelengths in song Y"). It sounds regimented, but it's required if you find you self going round in circles

[forge]

I'm not sure if I work in a different way to most people (I doubt it) , but most of my tracks get finished eventually. Some take longer than others, but I always know what they need.


I always have a lot of things going on and sometimes it's hard to remember what needs to be focused on and what is a distraction, so I use organisational software to keep track of what I am meant to be doing.

Anyone on windows I recommend AbstractSpoon's "ToDoList"
it's free and simple. http://www.abstractspoon.com/

I have a category for "music work" and I create tasks beneath that, each can have sub tasks and you can attach files and folder locations to the tasks.
That way when I open it up after a break I can see that "check mix of song X on other speakers - then sign off " has a high priority and I do that small task before going on to the next one ("check for errant notelengths in song Y"). It sounds regimented, but it's required if you find you self going round in circles

yeah that guy 'Dubber' on New music strategies recomended this one called 'thinking rock' which I downloaded and opened once then closed and filed it under 'one day'

I think I need it though

[Angstrom]

I think I looked at thinking rock and did the same thing

I advise AbstractSpoon mainly because it is simple to start.

ctrl&N (new task)
type name "finish some songs off"
that's it.

next day, you realise that is too vague
select the task : ctrl & shift & n (new subtask)
type name "finish off funky track in folder : X"

I went through about 15 - 20 task management tools before settling on that one.

[shhhhh]

IMO, just about every permutation and combination of notes, instruments, sounds, chord changes, etc has already been written. All that's left nowadays is to regurgitate what's already been done.

And with the ability to 'create' music easier than it's ever been, and getting cheaper and easier daily, we'll continue to be overloaded with crap.

OMG
Your life must be pretty boring...

At which time do you consider everything had already been written?
17th century? 1962? june 4th 2003?

And by the way, this is rethorically false since sound consists of frequencies, and there is an infinite number of those.

[forge]

IMO, just about every permutation and combination of notes, instruments, sounds, chord changes, etc has already been written. All that's left nowadays is to regurgitate what's already been done.

And with the ability to 'create' music easier than it's ever been, and getting cheaper and easier daily, we'll continue to be overloaded with crap.

OMG
Your life must be pretty boring...

At which time do you consider everything had already been written?
17th century? 1962? june 4th 2003?

And by the way, this is rethorically false since sound consists of frequencies, and there is an infinite number of those.

yeah Hambone, why don't you learn guitar or something. Then tell us it's all over you grumpy old bugger!

[Angstrom]

I think he's miffed because the era of the 30 minute drum solo has passed.

[ChiDJ]

I'm not sure Live makes it harder to finish tracks than other DAWs, but it makes it very easy not to, ....

you've pretty much summed up the great Ableton paradox right there

There are other life reasons as well so I can't blame it all on Live, but I think I finished more music before I got Live, but I think I've had a lot more fun with Live

it's the big danger of using it as your only DAW - Live is the tangent master!

Agreed. LIVE is always rewired into my main DAW. It's my ultimate scratch pad and tool for inspiration of great "parts". Once the parts are created, I record them into my DAW in song structure.

I can see how one could get "lost" in LIVE. That's why I write in another DAW more suited for my style.

SJ said it best. You gotta quit fuckin' around with loops and get some songs finished. Otherwise you're just a Looper and not a song writer.

Tod

[forge]

Hambone, you're in leafy Suffolk don't you, why don't you go make some Cider n ave a laugh or summat

Go get Delia to knock you up one've er Orange flavoured shepherd's pies or summat

[cubehog]

I´ve started with logic on a pc then switched to mac and used live in rewire mode and now I solely rely on live.
I think structuring in live is much easier because you got the session view. There´s no better way than this to get a songlayout.
The feel of this loopystoopy thing can be avoided with the unlocking of the clip lengths and cc-automation.

Too much repetion makes your head go numb after a while and then, boom, "I´ve lost the moment 2 minutes ago. But I worked pretty hard on this one, so I´ll save it for later"

My little trick to avoid loopy stoopy stuff is to write quite complex chords on a guitar trying to make it into a "complete song layout". Then I "split" these "guide chords" into 3 or 4 new chords. With this method I quickly form a simple song layout which always can be altered. The big advantage is this cohesive vibe and that these chords function as guidelines for making a track.

Another approach is the extensive use of follow actions. It´s a big feature in live. This is quite important for rhythmic ideas. Often the drumsounds need to tell their own story in dancemusic styles. So this the element I tend to start with.

These are 2 completely different methods.

I also have many, many unfinished ideas (riffs, patterns, sounds). But once in a while I set up a listening session and (Paul McCartney is right on this one), the good ideas will stand out from those which seem reduntant or don´t make your heart bounce enough. I throw these ideas into the trashcan because I know songwriting is fun and a constant process. I also see my improvements in this skill and enjoy the ride. One idea more or less doesn´t count if you see it this way. 1 out of 5 is my usual rate.

I think that the good snippets should have some appeal to you even after a long time. That´s what I call good music. And these revisions are important. Often the best songs are made with the greatest care and attention to detail. I´d consider it quite reasonable to assume that something with a lasting quality needs a decent amount of time, effort and talent to form it into "something special".

I totally disagree that quality music must be finished in one session. Maybe some dance music styles, punkrock songs or a jazz improvisation rely on this method of immediacy. But to sit in front of screen layering different instruments and to bring it into shape soundwise needs quite some time and reflective moments.
my 2 €-cents.

[pabloaugustus]

Well I think that one of the problem that makes it hard to transform ideas into full songs is the lack of structure tools in Live.

for example, trying different songs structures, like ABA or ABCA or AABAC, involves a great deal of cut and paste....


I remember working in other setups, where it was easy as typing ABA.....

I find it easy to lay these forms out by putting the different sections in the session and than playing them however you want into the arrangement....

But I do find Live limiting in my structure because I can never figure out where to put the transitions in....i.e. I'll have an A section, but then I also need an A section where the last four bars transition to the B (drum fill, some hits or a long note in the other parts). And through composing these transitions in the session view seems to defeat the whole purpose of live.

[heavensdaw]

[/quote]
And through composing these transitions in the session view seems to defeat the whole purpose of live.[/quote]

Why not do it arrangement then?

Hd